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DSM, dry start method: New(?) method to make a nice rug of HC before you add water

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Tom Barr, Aug 24, 2007.

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  1. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    I would think the pygmy chain sword, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (?), and dwarf hairgrass, Eleocharis (?) would do very well starting them this way. Both will grow emersed. The moss and riccia tend to be floating plants, rather than rooted plants, so I wouldn't try them.
     
  2. gros21

    gros21 Junior Poster

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    as any one tried this with hair grass. i have my hc but would be great to get my whole aqua scape going
     
  3. rusticitas

    rusticitas Lifetime Charter Member
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    I have set up a Marineland Eclipse System 6 for a co-worker. I have been doing the emersed start-up method since the first week of November. (Longer than intended, but it got very busy, and the plants seem ok).

    The pygmy chain sword is sending runners all over. (Begs the question, however, of why the runners are always above the substrate?) The dwarf hairgrass is much slower growing.

    I know the light in that tank is pretty low, but things do grow!
     
  4. gros21

    gros21 Junior Poster

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    yea i know it is slower growing i have a 5 1/2 foot tank and want to cove rit with hc and hairgrass i have 400W of lighting and am patientto wait up 2 to months if need be
     
  5. gros21

    gros21 Junior Poster

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    How and how much light do i use (as there will be no water to penerate) i ahve 5 1/2ftx20"x24" High tank. and i have 8x54W T5 HO fluros, they are set up in 4 banks of 2 fluros (which can be swich off seperatly), and thease are divided over 2 appliannce leads. so each plug has 2 banks of 2 light)

    I'm currently playing with my timing (nothing in tank)
    9am 4 lights come on
    noon 4 lighst come on
    3pm 4 lighst go off
    9pm 4 lighst go off


    this way it a bit more natural and less of a hit at 9am

    aslo with so much light and basic diy substarte am i wish to also spray my plants with abit of ferts every 2nd day?

    what ferts would u recommend for hc and hair grass? (and what ratio should i water down my store bought aquirium ferts?)
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I'd just use ADA AS and add nothing till you fill the tank with water.
    Leave lights on full for 12 hours etc.

    If you use a DIY sediment, you'll need to be specific about it.
    Same for store bought ferts.
    Hard to give advice if we do not know what's being used.:eek:

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  7. gros21

    gros21 Junior Poster

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    ok 1st layer is 1cm of peat moss,then 2cm of topsoil with 50grams of iron cleate and 1/2 cup of bloodand bone with added trace nutrients. top layer is 5-6cm of washed pool filter sand.

    I have ran out of ferts but is it worth me going and buying some more? or wait till my PMDD arrive and use them in a few days.
     
  8. rthomas

    rthomas Guru Class Expert

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    Yes, my 2' GEX tank also have that kind of opening.




    Q1) Tom, can I just air-tight the tank with plastic wrappers? I mean 100% air-tight. If yes, how would the plants get the CO2 that they require? So I am guessing the answer is a NO NO ? :rolleyes:

    Q2) I am going to use a new cannister filter for this tank. After 3 weeks of emersed growth, I will flood the tank and add CO2. At that point, since there are already bacteria in the ADA AS, can I safely add couple of SAEs and Tetras despite the filter is not mature yet ?

    TIA.
     
  9. rafel

    rafel Junior Poster

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    :eek: Bahhhh, I missed that part. I thought I have read and understood fully what Tom wrote. No wonder I have to wet the AS on a daily basis.

    Anyway, I have only started for a week and I don't think I have a glass lid. If air-tightening the tank is the way to go, then I will do it with wrappers. But I'll wait for the pros to reply.

    I am also interested to know about Roger's second question. I just bought a HOB last weekend to prepare for the day when I will flood the tank. As this is my first tank, I am not able to use gunk from a matured filter. So I am hoping the answer will be okay to flood the tank, run the filter, add CO2 and add fishes since the ADA AS is already loaded with bacteria in 2 weeks time.
     
  10. Dusko

    Dusko Prolific Poster

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    I am re-aquascaping my shops 160 liters tank tomorrow and will intend this method.

    The tank will be mainly planted with HC and after Hair Grass also. Only HC emerged though.

    I can't get any ADA soil so will try a combination instead;

    1. Thin bottom layer of Aquatic Nature soil Fertiplant ABF (active biologic formula)

    2. Tropica AquaCare PLANT NUTRTION+ capsules

    3. Tropica AquaCare PLANT SUBSTRATE (over the capsules and ABF soil)

    4. Plain gravel 4cm over on top

    5. Water, as recommended by Tom.

    6. Cover the tank and close the two back holes with bags (not air tight but still enough to keep the humidity)

    7. lights 2x 39 Watt T-5's and 2x 30 Watt T-8's (0.86 w/l = High light) for 9 h per day.

    I hope after 4 weeks I will have a nice carpet :cool: :D

    I will also try a small 9L tank with Aquatic Nature Dekoline Ferti - Soil. HC planted direct into it.

    Thanks Tom.

    Regards, Dusko.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You might talk to ADA or ADA in the UK. You folks could sell it there exclusively.
    If nothing else, the tanks, and the soils are good sellers.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. rafel

    rafel Junior Poster

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    :eek: Bahhhh, I missed that part. I thought I have read and understood fully what Tom wrote. No wonder I have to wet the AS on a daily basis.

    Anyway, I have only started for a week and I don't think I have a glass lid. If air-tightening the tank is the way to go, then I will do it with wrappers. But I'll wait for the pros to reply.

    I am also interested to know about Roger's second question. I just bought a HOB last weekend to prepare for the day when I will flood the tank. As this is my first tank, I am not able to use gunk from a matured filter. So I am hoping the answer will be okay to flood the tank, run the filter, add CO2 and add fishes since the ADA AS is already loaded with bacteria in 2 weeks time.
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Yes, bacteria will form, but you'd better better off waiting 3-4 weeks, not 2, patience is worth it ands the plants and less work will be the reward.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. Dusko

    Dusko Prolific Poster

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    Tom I have these lights;
    2x 39 Watt T-5's and 2x 30 Watt T-8's (0.86 w/l = High light) for 9 h per day (I can't have it for more than 9 hours because the shops lights go off automatically.).

    Today after planting the HC I though it is going to be way too much light, since there is no water = it could burn the leaves (maybe?).

    You advised 1.5-2w/g for this 3-4 weeks emerged method.

    Is it ok to go only with 2x39 Watt T-5's for the first 2 weeks (160 liters tank - 40cm high)?

    Thanks.

    Kind regards, Dusko.
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    HC is not a high light plant really, many like to suggest it is, but that's what they say about any foreground plant.

    I'd opt for the T5's only for awhile.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  16. Dusko

    Dusko Prolific Poster

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    Tom, you replied in another HC thread that;
    but in my case you wrote;
    :) This confuses me a bit. I don't mind testing for my self, but in this case I have some VIP planted guests coming in a month to visit me, and would like to impress with this emerged HC method aquarium ;)

    Here is the tank on day one;
    Image009.jpg
    Image010.jpg

    And since I have a 4cm tick gravel over the soil, I decided to mix 10ml of Tropica PN+ with N&P, with water. Will see how this works.


    Regards, Dusko.
     
  17. nissky

    nissky Junior Poster

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    Hi, this is my first post on any planted tank forum. :D
    My background is coral reef/marine tanks.
    I am wanting change in scenery, low tech planted is the way im looking to go.

    Quick question.
    How likely am i to have success using this method to get a nice ground cover,
    and then use a low tech setup? (2Wpg and no Co2 or excel)
    Is there another ground cover that would be more suitable other the HC?

    Thanks...
     
  18. nissky

    nissky Junior Poster

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    Ok, i think have have most of the answers from the other article...
    The Dry Start Up Method for Planted Aquariums.

    Great site Tom, many thanks!
     
  19. Dusko

    Dusko Prolific Poster

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    IMG_0108.jpg

    IMG_0110.jpg

    Here is my tank after approx 4 weeks.
    Emerged HC worked fine for me. The plant didn't form a carpet but did start spreading and did anchored it self to the substrate very well.

    I added water a few days ago and no HC is floating around. Dosing good CO2 levels and it is spreading readily.

    So, this method is something I would recommend to folk with enough patience ;)

    Regards, Dusko.
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Yes, Glossostigma should do well for you.
    And the slower growth will be nice, Gloss is a terrible weed if you let it go.
    HC gets bad as well though, just small and not quite as invasive.

    Chain swords(the red colored ones), microsword, likely most plants will do well with Excel and moderate light.

    I'm a soft coral/marine macro algae and fish person, not much in the SPS, but I might go that route if I cannot fit the 1/3 hp chiller in my cabinent, and need to go with a smaller chiller and then do a warm water reef.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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