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Dr Reddy's ppt slides on wetland sediments

Discussion in 'Estimative Index' started by Tom Barr, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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  2. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Nice read; I'm going to have to toss my self back into understanding ORP better. While a decent bit of it is still foggy in my head, this paper helps to clear things up. The chart on the bottom of page 8 really helps to make sense of things.

    -Philosophos
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    ORP/Redox is where it's all at and the main measured parameter when discussing wetland soils and roots, nutrients etc, it governs movement and transformations etc.

    I wish the ref Redox Calomal and platinum tips where more available.
    Redox is really squirrely.

    This is how we test what is an optimum redox for root growth rates and this is correlated with flow and O2 diffusion from above etc.

    Heating cable folks could have used this method to demonstrate that their heater cables where/where not effective, however, even after explaining it, and suggesting it, 20 years later.........not one has bothered, I have, others did, and found ranges of flow and ppm's and redox levels.

    The proponents curiously have remained silent other than the stop by and and try and yell loudly that it works well "for them", but there's no demonstration of any control, any quantification etc, just they appear to grow better and take my word for this long term subtle difference in growth(which if you have a very long term subtle difference, by it's very nature, it's not really significant and prone to many errors over months/year's of growth, particularly without any control reference, no redox measures etc etc etc).

    This might be preaching to the choir, however, with the link above, think about this and what's been done in wetland research and see if you find any rational for heat cables or the larger grain pore sizing with ADA's powersand providing better flow etc.

    I cannot.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I don't have an ORP meter hanging around, otherwise I'd be playing with it night and day right now.

    The only purpose I've seen to heating cables is consistency of temperature. I've used them on occasion along with the old ceramic jagger heaters that existed before eheim bought the company out. I've found the temperature in these tanks is far more precise, which is great for controlling gender ratios at hatch time.

    To be honest, I'm not sure where the argument for using heaters comes from on a scientific basis. If anything the substrate should insulate, meaning it's just going to effect tank temperatures and when the heaters switch on and off anyhow. The temperature at the substrate shouldn't vary in any meaningful way from the column, especially not when it's all of 50-75w compared to the 150-400w heaters on an average tank.

    -Philosophos
     
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Orp?

    Hi Philosophos,

    Found zero interest here concerning ORP.:eek:

    I suspect it is who brings it up.;)

    As you told me no one is interested in the science, I should not bother.

    If you are interested pm me, I might be able to help you out.

    Biollante
     
  6. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    If nobody were interested in science, this would be a very sad hobby. It's definitely the few who want to get into the mess of working out precise science from nature.

    What are you offering to help out on? ORP or heating cables?

    -Philosophos
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    ORP Meter

    Hi,

    I should add that Dr. Reddy’s power point presentation is excellent. The activity that occurs is amazing.

    I have been using ORP meters for quite a while now, principally a cheap pH/ORP pen.:eek:

    I now have a much better set up. Though I did not go the route of the lab grade or industrial probes, I did opt for the ‘fermentation’ probes, which should hold up to use in substrates and have some ion specific probes as well.

    The tricky part is not contaminating the thing you are measuring. My original use was with my little aquaculture setup, then the hydroponics, they rather go together.;)

    I know it is a form of blasphemy here, but I even like looking at the water column, it is fascinating. I am looking forward to one probe left in the water column in a heavily planted tank; I have gotten readings that I would have thought bordered on oxygen toxicity.

    Sometime, I think in early November, I am going to make a lot of this available online.

    I spent some time (did I mention money?) with a couple of engineers and some folks from a local university and they have a couple of things going that I think are interesting miserable wretch that I am.

    I am having a couple of monitoring arrays made for some long-term observation (two plus years). The arrays are principally capacitive, should give us some vector information.

    I have never been a fan of submerged heater coils and I believe Tom Barr is correct in thinking that they do little to prevent oxygen starvation and/or improve circulation through the substrate.

    Though none of the studies I am subsidizing is going to directly deal with heating cables, one along the way will involve heating and cooling various substrates and should give us some sort of indication.

    Oh well.

    Biollante
     
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