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Dosing General Hardness

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Gill Man, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. JadeButterfly

    JadeButterfly Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    I actually have the same question as Ian. How do I know if my tank is deficient in Ca or Mg.? Like, how will I be able to tell from my plant's growth?

    In Toronto here, I have very hard water. ~200ppm

    I haven't looked at the water report (not even sure how to...) to see how much Mg and Ca is in the water...
     
  2. JadeButterfly

    JadeButterfly Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    okay just checked.

    I only have access to the 2003 annual report

    Average Ca - 34ppm
    Average Mg - 8.3ppm

    how does those sound?
     
  3. m lemay

    m lemay Prolific Poster

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Those are both a little on the low side, not hard by any stretch. Should be adequate for growing plants. A little more calcium wouldn't hurt. Have you tested the gh out of your tap?
     
  4. JadeButterfly

    JadeButterfly Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    yeah 200ppm, but what are the deficiency seen on plants when Ca and Mg is low? My plants all have been doing generally good...
     
  5. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    What are you feeding your fish? When you test your tankwater, is there in
    increase in GH, KH, from what's on tap? I know you're growing glosso, perhaps
    your other plants are able to grow with these water parameters.

    Bill
     
  6. JadeButterfly

    JadeButterfly Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    actually my bad.
    200ppm i think is from my tank

    220ppm from tap for GH

    I think my KH gets lowered from 140 to 120ppm because of CO2...

    this is from what I recall, I haven't test my tap water in almost 3 weeks
    the last time I test my tank water...(a week ago)... GH 200ppm, KH 120ppm
     
  7. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Scrolling back up to your annual water report of 2003, your water certainly
    increased in hardness, didn't it? 200ppm GH and 120ppm KH, you are just
    fine not adding anything (if Ca to Mg is 3-4:1). You can save the baking soda,
    too. :)

    Bill
     
  8. Gill Man

    Gill Man Prolific Poster

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Alex, I used Calcium hardness test, LM-3609. So here are the formulae I got from another forum(s), don't know which:

    There are two different ways Ca is measured by test kits.

    1. If the Ca from test kit is just for Ca, then
    Mg = (dGH*17.1 - Ca*2.5)/4.1 (ppm)

    2. If the Ca is for equivalent CaCO3,
    Actual Ca = CaCO3/2.5
    Mg = (dGH*17.1 - CaC03)/4.1 (ppm)


    I can't verify the formulae, but it looks good to me. Don't know where the 4.1 comes from.
     
  9. GreenStuff

    GreenStuff Prolific Poster

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  10. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Problem is that they mostly look very similar. I mean you can tell if they are on new or old growth but that's it for me, since I don't have enough experience on the subject of nutrient deficiency. I don't think I want to have a lot of personal experience with that ;) , but then again I would like to know what's going on when there is a problem.

    I have some problems in form of nutrient deficiency and I found almost exactly the same pictures of the same plant from somebody else. It looks so similar I could just say this is it. But he managed to cure the problem with adding calcium and I'm almost sure it's not calcium in my case. I didn't rule it out completely, but it will be the last thing to add calcium if everything else fails.
     
  11. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness


    This sure look nice, but is there any scientific explanation of this? How it works?
     
  12. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    I want to get a test kit for calcium, too, and thought the easiest way to
    factor Mg is test for GH (with perhaps not really accurate AP Kit) test for
    Calcium, then subtract that from GH for Mg. Would this be way off or what?
    AP kit for GH measures in dGH so I would have to multiply by 17.9 for ppm.

    Bill
     
  13. JadeButterfly

    JadeButterfly Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    are there any commercial product I can dose to not only increase Ca and Mg, but to get them to a ratio of 3-4:1?

    I don't have the dry ingredients on me and not sure of the exact amount of each I have in my water.

    I think I do notice deficiency...my ludwiga...new leaves are nice,thick and shiny...but they are also kinda curled up, especially at the tips and edges.
     
  14. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    It's not only Ca++ and Mg++ that makes GH, there are some other things, so you can't just subtract Ca++ from GH to get Mg++. I wish it would be so simple :)
     
  15. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Me too! Was hoping for at least a ballpark figure :)

    Bill
     
  16. Ian H

    Ian H Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    it is simple if you don't overcomplicate it. :) If you subtract the Ca++ tested value from the Gh value you will get a Mg figure close enough for your needs. Ca and Mg are the predominant substances that effect the Gh reading.

    Ian
     
  17. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Which is what I was asking in my post, thanks Ian!

    Bill
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    It's highly unlikely, although remotely possible, you have any GH issue with a hardness of 200ppm. If you did have any issue, adding a small amount of MgSO4 would take care of it.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  19. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness


    How do you subtract the Ca++ tested value from the dGh value?

    I did a test on bottled water with known characteristical ingredients for 1 liter:
    Ca++ = 64,5 mg
    Mg++ = 19,2 mg
    Na++ = 7 mg
    K+ = 1,3 mg
    HCO3- = 256,2 mg
    SO4-- = 16,8 mg
    Cl- = 15,5 mg
    NO3- = 8,5 mg

    My cheap tests show 14° dGH and between 10° and 11° dKH.

    If you try this formula
    1. If the Ca from test kit is just for Ca, then
    Mg = (dGH*17.1 - Ca*2.5)/4.1 (ppm)

    you get 19,06. If that is mg/l then it actually works :cool:. But without some reasonable explanation it could be just a coincidence.
     
  20. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Dosing General Hardness

    Hmm, Tom if I have dGH around 14 (degree up or down) then I can asume that I can't have Ca issue. Right? And Mg issue would be probably the last thing I should look if everything else is ruled out. Is this making any sense?
     
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