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Dosing and calculations help! Calling all brain box!

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by NanoPlants, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. NanoPlants

    NanoPlants Junior Poster

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    Hi I'm new to Aquascaping and would like some help! Thanks!!!

    Specs

    Tank: 20lt
    Light: 2wpg, sunlight
    Plants: HC, Marimo, Java Moss
    Habitants: Crystal Red Shrimp
    Decor: Rocks, Bogwood
    Chemicals: Prime, Excel

    I've recently got some dry ferts on ebay:
    60g Trace Mix
    15g Fe (8% iron chelat EDTA)

    Trace Mix Composition

    B - 0,188
    Mn - 0,718
    Zn - 0,189
    Cu - 0,163
    Fe - 1,174
    Mo - 0,024
    Co - 0,004
    O - 35
    N - 6
    Mg - 10
    S - 14
    C - 5
    H2O - 27,5

    99,96 % altogether

    I have a 20lt Nano tank and would like to to mix 200ml of stock solutions.

    My target is to dose daily or 3 time weekly and achieve Fe of 0.1ppm with 25% water change weekly.
    So how much Trace mix(g) & Fe(g) should I mix with 200ml of water?
    What is the compositions of the stock solution?
    How much to dose?
    Can you please show how you work this out please so I can learn something(dry fert amount+water+dosing amount+tank volume=Fe 0.1ppm) :D

    Sorry for all the questions. I have been reading for weeks and still cant figure it out.:mad:
     
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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  3. NanoPlants

    NanoPlants Junior Poster

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    Thanks but I've been there done it before doesn't help!
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Why does the calculator not work?
    Here's the out put based on your goal:


    To reach your target of 0.1ppm Fe, you'll need to add 1.2252grams of Plantex CSM+B into your 200.0 mL container.
    Each 5.0 mL of that mix into 20.0 L is:

    Element ppm/degrees
    B 0.02
    Cu 0.00
    Fe 0.10
    Mg 0.02
    Mn 0.03
    Mo 0.00
    Zn 0.01
    dGH 0.00

    Also, the Excel dosing is much more harmful than the ferts you are adding to CRS.
    Temp, TDS and good general care will help far more.

    I'd suggest going non Excel, non CO2.
    Then you can reduce the dosing and water changes.
    You will get higher brood from breeding this way.

    I simply took the Fe ETDA and mixed it with the other trace mix. This is the 100% and is relatively close to CMS+B, a few parts per billion off is not going to change anything. If you believe that it will, you are mistaken.
    I've dosed 10X this amount for several years and have bred SS+ grades. That was with CO2 as well. When I placed them in a non CO2 tank and at a lower temp, brood production increased dramatically.
    Ferts had no effect.

    FYI.............
     
  5. NanoPlants

    NanoPlants Junior Poster

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    Thanks for your help n tips!

    The trace mix I have different composition to cms+b or TNT trace mix and the Fe ETDA is separate so Im just confuse about how much of each to mix together. So if I mix 60g trace + 15g Fe = 75g trace+Fe so wat % is my Iron(Fe) now?

    I'm trying to make the HC grow that's why I'm adding Excel n fert only enough for it to grow healthy as it gone abit yellow and brown. I'm not keen on using Co2 so Excel seem to be good alternative. Do you think HC would grow with no Excel and Co2?
     
    #5 NanoPlants, Jun 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2011
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Great Calculator Wet!

    Hi,

    First rule of Nerdom, read everything.:gw Tom Barr explained the difference between CSM+B and your trace mix is insignificant, within parts per billion (ppb).

    Wow Wet’s calculator is really nice! I really like Wets organization.:cool:

    Wet’s calculator (not surprisingly) returned exactly the same numbers for me that Tom Barr cited above.

    Realistically of course the answer of 1.2252-grams per 200 milliliters is a bit of fun, since that assumes a ridiculous (for our purposes) bit of accuracy. The obvious error of all the hobby calculators is well within the acceptable limits; but renders all of the 4-digit and 8-digit answers nonsensical, so just round up, using a bit more than you think you need until you develop a feel for dosing and can let your plants tell you what they need.:)

    A bit more than a gram of CSM+B is plenty accurate, personally I would use quite a bit more, but that is just me.:rolleyes:

    As far as calculating it yourself, you really only need solve for percentage of a particular substance in grams per mole and express it in parts per million. The calculators are just fine; always round up.

    I think you will have a hard time with the HC without CO2.

    Biollante
     
  7. NanoPlants

    NanoPlants Junior Poster

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    It's like cooking without recipe Lol!
    Just me getting ahead of myself! wanting to know every details! too much reading got me cookoo :p hahaha!

    The calculator is great by the way with the graphs.
    Got really bored so I figure out the calculation to work out the exact amount ppm of every chemical in the mix solution and made my own calculator hehe I'm just retarded!:D

    Hmmm gonna try get the HC going some how...anyone has any success with HC with no Co2 or Excel and using inert substrate? Advise please! Yes I seen through every page on HC including the non Co2 post by Tom Barr have not found anything about non Co2 and inert substrate. (going into diffrent subject sorry! Hehe!)

    When did a hobby become chemical warfare?:D
     
    #7 NanoPlants, Jun 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2011
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    It's not suppose to be chem warfare, I've been after people 15 years over that one.

    You might try Wet's EI modeling calculator also, just throw some no#'s in there and plug and chug.
    Try say 10ppm of NO3

    50% water change then hit graph.



    http://ei.petalphile.com/
     
  9. NanoPlants

    NanoPlants Junior Poster

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    Yea been playing with lots of things lol! Thanks for all the advise.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, this allows folks to play around and set their own parameters and tolerances.

    These tend to be a little arbitrary.
     
  11. Chunks

    Chunks Prolific Poster

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    I'm trying to understand the out put of wets dosing calculator, see the output below:

    To reach your target of 10ppm NO3, you'll need to add 102.87 grams of KNO3 into your 500.0 mL container.
    Each 3.0 mL of that mix into 10.0 gal is:

    Element ppm/degrees
    K 6.31
    N 2.26
    NO3 10.00

    My question is how often is this telling me to dose? Once a week? Or three times a week?

    I have read and read all that I can about EI and the dosing regime is done a few times over the course of the week right?
     
  12. Chunks

    Chunks Prolific Poster

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    Does anybody have an answer? Do I dose once or three times a week with the output above?
     
  13. Wet

    Wet Lifetime Members
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    Hey Chunks. 3 times a week, just like the EI stickies. You should find options for EI weekly and daily on the calculator as well if you want them.

    That Cabomba gets hungry once they get going. This will be a plus for you -- Watch them for any yellowing or stunted growth and they'll let you know if anything's going on. (You'll almost certainly be fine.) Then just work on the scape and trimming/shaping those plants.
     
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