Do I need less Co2 with softer water?

kilauea91

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fablau said:
Wow, beautiful tanks! I have never seen a Montecarlo bush like that, amazing!

Do you dose EI? in all thanks? Do you use Co2 in the big one?


I'll definitively let you know when I plan coming. Thank you again!

Zero dosing in both shrimp tanks other than bump up the GH to 4-6 degree essential to shrimp proper molting, plants only get nutrients from old aquasoil, shrimp food and poop. I never had success raising Caridina sp. in high tech. tank. I keep the light intensity low enough in the shrimp tanks never causing any issue. Most of the plants grow extremely slow, except a few die hard species. Monte Carlo you see is the result of over a year of negligence.Then I found it doesn't look too bad in the form of thick bush so I decided to leave it like that. I thought the bottom will rot and uproot itself due to insufficient lighting, but surprisingly it stayed pretty healthy. It's probably the best carpet plant for low tech setup given a good substrate.


120P has high light(3 modded ecotech XR15FW), CO2 injected through inline atomizer, 2 canisters(2217 & 2078). I don't really follow certain fertilization regime like a clock, it depend on how busy I am, same goes for water changing/maintenance schedule.
 

Tom Barr

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I'd not fret over the GH much, cut the LA/OC tap with about 1/2 to 2/3rd's RO. Then you have most things under control.


I have 2 client's down there. So it works well for most any plant species.
 

fablau

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kilauea91 said:
Zero dosing in both shrimp tanks other than bump up the GH to 4-6 degree essential to shrimp proper molting, plants only get nutrients from old aquasoil, shrimp food and poop. I never had success raising Caridina sp. in high tech. tank. I keep the light intensity low enough in the shrimp tanks never causing any issue. Most of the plants grow extremely slow, except a few die hard species. Monte Carlo you see is the result of over a year of negligence.Then I found it doesn't look too bad in the form of thick bush so I decided to leave it like that. I thought the bottom will rot and uproot itself due to insufficient lighting, but surprisingly it stayed pretty healthy. It's probably the best carpet plant for low tech setup given a good substrate.


120P has high light(3 modded ecotech XR15FW), CO2 injected through inline atomizer, 2 canisters(2217 & 2078). I don't really follow certain fertilization regime like a clock, it depend on how busy I am, same goes for water changing/maintenance schedule.

Very intereting, thank you for sharing so much information. Do you get any algae in your hi-tech tank? It looks very clean.
 

fablau

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Tom Barr said:
I'd not fret over the GH much, cut the LA/OC tap with about 1/2 to 2/3rd's RO. Then you have most things under control.
I have 2 client's down there. So it works well for most any plant species.

Thanks Tom, that's what I am trying doing, step-by-step, reaching 50-50 RO-tap. Hopefully I will solve some of my plant issues... Thanks :)
 

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I'd not bother with slow step by step unless you have something more touchy than angels and Discus.
 

fablau

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Tom Barr said:
I'd not bother with slow step by step unless you have something more touchy than angels and Discus.

Oh, really? Actually that's what I thought at first, then someone around suggested me to go step by step to avoid issue with livestock (and I don't have sensitive species), but if you say so... I'll go faster!


I can say that I am already seeing some benefits if that may be correlated. For example, Staurogyne Repens is getting in better shape and growing larger leaves (!!!), not sure if that may be correlated to softer water. Also, from the "technical" stand point, I see my Co2 curve stabilizing better, and I think this is a real discovery for me. After so many years struggling to mix Co2 and O2 in the right amount to have a stable pH curve fully degassed and a stable pH curve fully Co2 saturated, my Co2 curve is chagning as the one I have seen for so many people with great tanks.


Here is the Co2 curve I have been having for the past 2 years (with KH 7 and GH 14):


PH_8-6-2016_zpso3ia470t.jpg



Here is the curve I have now, with KH 5 and GH 11 (still hard though!):


PHdropright.jpg



I really never thought that lower KH could cause that to happen.... unless I am completely misled now and that Co2 curve is just a fortunate case of the week? Never happened to me before though...
 

gsjmia

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So Fablau, if I am following this thread correctly, the only change you made between chart 1 and chart 2 is the addition of RO water that changed the KH? No change in agitation or needle valve?
 

fablau

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No changes. But today I have realized that the water level inside the sump (I have a wet/dry) is a little lower than usual, so to overrule that as possible contributor to degassing, I have added some more water to bring the level where it should be, so we'll see if that makes any difference. I will recheck the pH curve tomorrow and let you know,
 

gsjmia

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Great thanks, I am working on that bottom part of the PH curve myself and was under the impression it was a matter of adjusting the needle valve (to overload with more co2 than needed) and then adjusting the surface agitation (to degas the excess) that would flatten out the bottom and keep the ph from continuing to drop.


I have an overkill cerges reactor and could easily get a 1 degree drop within an hour, but the drop would continue and kill all the critters. So, in order to achieve I turn the co2 on about 2 hours before lights, and now only get about a .2 further drop in ph during the whole photo period. I wish there was more info about this (or maybe its there and I don't realize it).


Fablau, great topic, thanks
 

kilauea91

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fablau said:
Very intereting, thank you for sharing so much information. Do you get any algae in your hi-tech tank? It looks very clean.

There was a short period of time when BBA and staghorn growing on rocks and plants but made it gone by manual removal and giving the substrate a good vacuum. Now only minor GDA on glass get cleaned during water change.
 

fablau

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gsjmia said:
Great thanks, I am working on that bottom part of the PH curve myself and was under the impression it was a matter of adjusting the needle valve (to overload with more co2 than needed) and then adjusting the surface agitation (to degas the excess) that would flatten out the bottom and keep the ph from continuing to drop.

I have an overkill cerges reactor and could easily get a 1 degree drop within an hour, but the drop would continue and kill all the critters. So, in order to achieve I turn the co2 on about 2 hours before lights, and now only get about a .2 further drop in ph during the whole photo period. I wish there was more info about this (or maybe its there and I don't realize it).


Fablau, great topic, thanks

Yes, adding O2 should make the trick, but it never worked perfectly for me (not consistently enough), but now seems to work. I William Ivey out an update soon.
 

fablau

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kilauea91 said:
There was a short period of time when BBA and staghorn growing on rocks and plants but made it gone by manual removal and giving the substrate a good vacuum. Now only minor GDA on glass get cleaned during water change.

Ok, I see... do you know how much Co2 are you adding to that tank? Just curious... thanks :)
 

Tom Barr

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Keep in mind that the goal for Kilauea is shrimp, with plants, not plants.........with shrimp.


My algae eaters are pretty tough customers, Amanos and Red cherries. Small plecos that breed etc.


East Bay MUD has all sorts of weird water sources. Albany had fairly stable water back in the 1990's, parts of Oakland etc.


KH about 2, PO4 was 0.5ppm.


The bigger factor is CO2 enrichment with respect to brood production for shrimp near as I and others have deduced.


If you want to breed and do well with shrimps, do not add it. Grow lots of moss and do well with non CO2 methods.


Sponge filter and aerated, I'd ditch the canister filter idea.


A decent dual sponge filter works great for planted tanks even with CO2.


I use them on 4 tanks in the garage.


No water changes really.


Rich ADA AS.


No dosing.


3 tanks have CO2, 1 does not.


All have shrimp.
 

Tom Barr

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Your CO2 curve looks better with the lower KH. Knock it down to 2 degrees.


Then see.
 

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Naw, go to 2 dKH your next WC. Keep GH up to 2-3 at least.