This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

For Sale: Diy Micro Fert Ingredients - Rolling Your Own Made Easy!!

Discussion in 'Trades, swaps, sales' started by burr740, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Looking to roll your own but dont know where to start?? Here's all the non-Fe compounds you need without having to buy 10 lifetimes worth of each thing separately. It's enough to last a few years even heavy dosing a big tank.

    These are all listed on the popular nutrient calculators like rotalabutterfly and Zorfox. You just calculate for the desired ppm of each compound and make a solution just like any other dry fert. Be glad to assist if you have any questions about recipes or ratios

    [​IMG]

    Includes 3 oz (90 grams) each of
    Mn - MnSO4.H2O
    B - H3BO3
    Zn - ZnSO4.H2O

    And 20 grams each of
    Mo - Na2MoO4*2H2O
    Cu - CuSO4.5H2O
    Ni - NiSO4.6H2O

    $39.00 Shipped / $32 with plant order

    If you need the Fe as well I can add 1/2 lb of DTPA 11% for $9

    Shoot me a PM if interested
     
  2. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    573
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Nice packaging there my friend..........looking very professional!!!:D

    Good idea and should be helpful to many. Makes it pretty pain free to get started.

    If anyone wants to get a better idea of the procedure (which is actually pretty easy), I go through pretty much step by step in my journal (link below).

    https://barrreport.com/threads/greggz-120g-planted-rainbow-tank.14401/page-8
     
    burr740 likes this.
  3. Dustin Feagley

    Dustin Feagley New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    What benefits would this diy micros package provide vs regular csmb dosing? I'm very interested in buying it, but will I just end up creating the same mixture as csmb?
     
  4. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    The whole point is to create a better micro supplement than csmb. Csmb works fine for some people, others not so much.

    Aside from the fact that csmb is made for agriculture and hydroponic use, dealing with hundreds or thousands of gallons at a time, not designed to dose fractions of a teaspoon in aquariums. (It just happened to be the only economical solution back in the day when EI was becoming popular. That's the only reason it's use in the hobby is so widespread today). Aside from that, a main reason it works better for some than others is different PH levels.

    Most folks making their own use Fe DTPA because the DTPA chelate has a higher PH threshold than the EDTA Fe used in csmb. EDTA starts to break loose from Fe around 6.5 PH, the higher the PH gets, the more Fe is lost.

    DTPA stays bound to Fe with PH levels into into the upper 7.s. So if your PH level is much over 6.5 for any amount of time, Fe DTPA is a better choice.

    The other micros in the DIY pack are non-chelated compounds. The same stuff used in all Seachem products.

    Fe is the main thing that requires a strong chelate because it is very volatile in it's raw state. Unchelated Fe in a water column will quickly precipitate out of solution, or bind with something else, such as P, creating FePO4 rendering both unavailable to plants. The other micros are not so important to be chelated. And many find that unchelated versions work better in our aquariums.

    It is also possible to create better ratios than csmb when you have full control over what's included. Zn for example is woefully low in csmb, and the Fe:Mn ratio is too great. Got shrimps? Use less copper.

    The DIY package also includes nickel. Nickel is essential for plants to process urea, and also helps plant use Fe. Most tap waters will have enough trace amounts of nickel, and folks using Aquasoil probably get enough. But it doesnt hurt to add a dash to make sure that base is covered. It has a very low potential for toxicity. Anyone using RO water with an inert substrate should definitely include Ni in their dosing.

    Here is a good starter recipe lots of folks have been using for a few months with great results.

    Fe - .15 ppm
    Mn - .075 ppm
    B - .03 ppm
    Zn - .055 ppm
    Mo - .0015 ppm
    Cu - .002 ppm
    Ni - .0005 ppm

    Tweaked version Im currently finding works a little better

    Fe - .15 ppm
    Mn - .06 ppm
    B - .03 ppm
    Zn - .042 ppm
    Mo - .0015 ppm
    Cu - .002 ppm
    Ni - .0005 ppm

    Stronger Fe version

    Fe - .2 ppm
    Mn - .08 ppm
    B - .035 ppm
    Zn - .05 ppm
    Mo - .0015 ppm
    Cu - .002 ppm
    Ni - .0005 ppm

    And of course you can add however much you want of anything. Its best to keep the Fe:Mn ratio between 2:1 and 3:1. Everything else you can experiment with a little more or less without changing the other stuff.

    Just use a calculator like rotalabutterfly or Zorfox to figure how much of each thing to add for the desired ppm and make a solution. You'll have to make a solution because the amount of most things is very small
     
  5. Dustin Feagley

    Dustin Feagley New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Great explanation!! I'll PM you after work
     
  6. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    573
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Well put Burr!

    And to add to above, depending on the tank, some people had issues dosing CSM+B. Folks like you (and me) were dosing very, very tiny amounts of micros for quite some time. Higher dosing created issues pretty quickly. Not for all, but many.

    With the custom blend using DTPA and non chelated micros, many are dosing now what would be considered wildly increased amounts with good results.

    For instance, for quite awhile I was dosing CSM+B at .02 Fe 3 times per week. For many months now I have been dosing the custom blend at .15. That is about 17 times as much. Crazy but true.
     
    Dustin Feagley and burr740 like this.
  7. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Indeed. I was in the same boat and anyone who followed my first 75 journal on TPT saw it happen.

    .015 - .02 ppm Fe from csmb 3x week was about the most I could dose without bad things happening, severe stunting being the main thing especially finicky stem species. At the same time it was tough to get simple things like staurogyne repens to do well dosing such small amounts.

    Now Im dosing .15 and .2 ppm as often as daily and 90% of everything is happy.

    Personally I think crappy csmb is entirely to blame for the whole "micro-tox" craze. To the folks who saw it happen again and again there was no doubt micros were an issue. Folks who never saw it didnt believe it was possible. Check your CO2 they said...

    It was hard to argue with the results from either side and thus ensued the blood wars over which side was right. Turns out they both were.

    But the problem all along was never the micros themselves. It was crappy csmb, for whatever reason.

    Works fine for some....nightmare for others
     
  8. AgMa

    AgMa Junior Poster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    These recipes are total weekly ppm?
     
  9. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Per dose.

    Here's a slightly better recipe than what's listed above

    Fe - .15 ppm
    Mn - .05 ppm
    B - .045 ppm
    Zn - .05 ppm
    Mo - .0015 ppm
    Cu - .002 ppm
    Ni - .0005 ppm
     
  10. csantucci

    csantucci Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Hey burr. When you make your solutions, are you using a preservative to keep the solution viable for a given time, or is it not necessary?
     
  11. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Yeah you need something to set the PH. Distilled vinegar works well, something like 10 ml per 500 ml of solution

    Ive started using ascorbic acid in mine, mainly because folks are asking for pre-mixed packs and this way they can just mix with distilled water without having to add anything else. 1/2 gram per 500 ml

    Potassium sorbate at .2 gram per 500 ml will keep it from molding (at least so far in my 18 week old test jar). But Ive never seen it mold with just vinegar or ascorbic acid either
     
  12. AgMa

    AgMa Junior Poster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Per dose x3?
     
  13. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Yes. A few folks are dosing more often even daily. I dosed daily for a while. Currently using a .2 ppm mix 4-5x per week.

    But 3x per week should be fine for most tanks
     
    AgMa likes this.
  14. csantucci

    csantucci Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Thanks. This is very helpful. I haven't ever mixed a solution. Just dumped dry ferts in.
     
    burr740 likes this.
  15. AgMa

    AgMa Junior Poster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Can we use zinc sulfate heptahydrate instead of monohydrate?
     
  16. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Yes, both are listed on roralabutterfly
     
    AgMa likes this.
  17. Swissal

    Swissal Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    26
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Hi Burr,

    First off, I'd like to say what an inspiration your various threads have been to me. Really appreciate your analytical aproach, devotion, time and open contribution to the hobby! Bravo!

    Then my question: Do you (or others) have any experience in sending such micro substances overseas?

    With a few strange looks and comments, I have managed to source ZnSO4, CuSO4 and H3BO3 through local chemists. Fe DTPA seems to be available in farming quantities of 25 Kg. One sack should see me through to the end of my lifetime, I guess, but if I could find it in smaller sizes, that would also be great. Unfortunately, though, there seems to be no way on earth for me to get hold of MnSO4, Na2MoO4, or NiSO4.

    Does anyone out there know how to get hold of these micros in Switzerland? I would be willing to drive to a neighbouring country like Germany if necessary. I would also be more than happy to transfer some money to a paypal account or the like, for someone to put a small quantity of these things in an envelope, and send it to me as an experiment. I would take the risk that it gets stopped in customs, just to see if it works.
    Getting desperate here, and I can't believe I am the only one in this predicament.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for me, Allwissend, maybe (sounds German to me)?

    Many thanks in advance!
     
  18. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Thanks for the kind words @Swissal , Im glad my exploits have been useful to some other folks :)

    I wouldnt begin to know what is involved in shipping overseas. But surely these compounds exist in Switzerland. Its not exactly a third world country.

    Have you tried gardening supply stores, hydroponic suppliers, something like that, either online or in person?
     
  19. AgMa

    AgMa Junior Poster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    5
    Local Time:
    8:52 PM
    Hi burr,
    I think you were using fe gluconate for some time but then you changed to dtpa because you saw something like brown build up on outlet tube?
    Gluconate is supposed to be consumed quickly and easily by the plants.
    Couldn't just be organics build up?
     
    #19 AgMa, Aug 24, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  20. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Local Time:
    2:52 PM
    Gluconate also precipitates very fast, hence the brown build up, which started and stopped with gluconate. So in this case organics had nothing to do with it.

    But the main reason I stopped using it was because the plants didnt seem to care for it. I think for one thing I was relying too heavily on it alone (dosing a whole lot) and another thing, gluconate is kinda tricky to remain stable in solution. It may have needed a lower PH than what I was doing at the time using only a dash of vinegar. Im not really sure but the results werent very good.

    If the plants liked it I could've lived with the brown build up

    My intention was to try it again down the road but using all dtpa has worked so well there's been no urgent need to do anything different
     
    Greggz likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice