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DIY Co2 , How to turn it off? Does it hurt fish/plants if kept on at night?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by anshuman, May 13, 2010.

  1. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    Experienced Planted fishtank keepers with DIYCo2, please help.


    I have 20 gallon killifish tank , its planted , medium, lots of broad hair grass, some cambomba coralina , water wisteria and some dwarf grass and marimo balls and LOTS of riccia floating.

    I dose it with seach excel for co2 source and Dry-fert dosing.


    Now i have just started DIY CO2 (as liquid co2 bottle is finishing), I know plants don't need co2 at night so how to turn this off? The bubbles are not fast btw, just one giant bubble per 4/5 seconds but the ceramic dispenser keeps spurting minute bubbles constantly in the tank.

    Will it hurt fish if kept on?

    Will it hurt plants if kept on?


    Should i keep pulling the Ceramic/glass co2 dispenser to the surface every-night to avoid co2 spike at night?

    I have this sponge filter which throws bubbles at surface and creates a current (which also disperses the co2 bubbles around water as it reaches surface). Will this help remove excess co2?
     
  2. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tough question. Yeast (edit fermentations edit) do not like Oxygen so pulling the line from the yeast reactor is bad. I use a needle wheel/powerhead on a timer but that isn't much help in this case. I have found with my 10 gallon tank and a slower bubble rate that I have not had any problems with the CO2 running 24/7. I am inclined to think if you have sufficient water agitation at night it would be OK. However, you might try adding a quick connect to the line after the check valve and disconnect it from the disk at night from there and the check valve would keep out O2 and keep the reactors pressure stable.
     
    #2 Tug, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2010
  3. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    HIII Tug :) high-five :D


    Okay thanks for answering. I should have told this, MY DIY co2 is not one giant bottle with co2 line directly in the tank, the reactor (giant bottle with yeast + sugar solution) has one outlet, that outlets goes into another small bottle which has plain water and free surface at top, the second outlet from this bottle goes into tank (this outlet is in the air-column second bottle getting co2).

    I am afraid of loosing pressure in line if i loosen something or build huge pressure in bottle if i add stop-valve etc. Me still wondering.
     
  4. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Back at u buddy,
    Just to be clear, if you were to add a check valve to the line after the BC just before the line goes into the tank, then add a quick connect to the line you could disconnect the line there at night, connect it in the morning and it should take less then 15 minutes for that short section of line to fill with CO2 and start entering the diffuser.
     
  5. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    YESSSS, Brilliant idea. I have both stuff here, will do it soon and i need to show that tank, nothing amazing but looks cute.
     
  6. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    I would love to see it. After more then a year of tooling around with mine it is finally to the point were I can stop messing with it. It has given me loads of experience in just a short time. Next, I need to connect to a pressurized CO2 system or Left C says he is going to recall the Victor VTS253A he sold me. :D
     
  7. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    You're dern tootin' I'm going to. That's a chrome plated medical grade two stage 1993 model with a M series Swagelok Vernier handle metering valve and a Clippard solenoid!!!

    Just kidding. I hope that you enjoy it as much as I did. :)

    anshuman, as soon as you can, get a pressurized CO2 system. You'll like it and hate your yeast/sugar set-up.

    Yeast can actually produce CO2 aerobically and anaerobically.
    aerobic: Glucose + Oxygen = Carbon Dioxide + Water + Energy
    anaerobic: Glucose = Carbon Dioxide + Ethanol + Energy
    "The most efficient form of respiration is aerobic respiration: this requires oxygen. When oxygen is not available, some organisms can respire anaerobically i.e. without air or oxygen. Yeast can respire in both ways. Yeast gets more energy from aerobic respiration, but when it runs out of oxygen it does not die. It can continue to respire anaerobically, but it does not get so much energy from the sugar. Yeast produces ethanol (alcohol) when it respires anaerobically and ultimately the ethanol will kill the yeast."
    From: http://www.purchon.com/biology/respire.htm
     
  8. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    Good info there Left C , thanks. Ya i am eventually going for cylinder , there is no way I can control this hobby now. (BTW i will be selling plants etc to recover that money , so i don't feel guilty telling people when i get that cylinder+value+things_it_will_demand.
     
  9. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thanks for clarifying the O2 angle LC. And, if I wait too long I might need that chrome plated medical grade two stage 1993 model to go on top of the oxygen tank I'll be toolin' around with in my old age. Hopefully, I'll stop smoking before that happens. I've quit before, plenty of times. :(

    My vintner was the one who told me that Oxygen disrupts the fermentation and that I should prevent it from reaching the yeast. But, he was talking about making wine. Maybe I should have said fermentations are better in the absence of O2. In any case, I find maintaining a consistent pressure in the reactor does provide for a longer fermentation. It might be that it has to do with maintaining a constant pressure more then it has to do with Oxygen.
     
  10. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    I can't remember yeast's mechanisms now or what little that I did know is gone. I just remember that they "could" do it both ways, but we like them to go a certain way.

    Smoking ... Have you seen the commercial about the lady with a missing voice box? Just take deep breaths and hold them when you feel the urge for a cig. The urge will ease off. When you feel the urge, do it again. Eventually it'll go away. I know two people that tried this and they quit and stayed quit. One wasn't me though.

    That VTS253A1993 was cleaned and certified for O2 use when it was new even though it came ready for CO2 duty. It's a good one!
     
  11. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    There's always scuba diving.

    I lost the factoid I had, too. I saw a study on yeast growth, recording the different pressure they create at different growth phases. Great, now I'm not even sure I understand what I thought I knew. Isn't life just grand. At 8psi there in a growth phase.

    I know what your saying about the craving. It's true that it goes away. Thanks again LC.

    Hey anshuman, where's that picture. I love cute!!!
     
    #11 Tug, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2010
  12. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    well. that was interesting.

    Yesterday, i got lazy and at 8.pm i shut off the lights at killitank and didn't bother to put the oxygen airstone. Then i thought I see so many posts its harmless if its DIY Co2, lets find it out. I was watching marraige-ref and community back_to_back and then late at night , I suddenly realized need to check with tank, at 11.30 i found some females gather at top near riccia island. I didn't think much...then at 1.00 am, as i was bout to hit bed. I saw 3 Males and 4 female , hovering near the surface (NOT gasping but just hovering there), RED lights went in head, I panicked and threw in the air-stone. after 1 hour, I saw all killies have gone at the bottom as usual ,sleeping.


    That was close, I am sure If i had forgotten , In morning I would have seen all fishes either dying or gasping as they were dying.


    So yea, I think my DIY is potent enuf, I am not gonna test it again.
     
  13. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    hi Tug,

    Here is the video (i hate pics taken by my camera ,somehow vid is better) . I am now going to clean up this tank, re-arrange the plants after approx 40 days, and take another video.


    [video=youtube;F69e8QpwHHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F69e8QpwHHE[/video]
     
    #13 anshuman, May 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2010
  14. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    I love the ingenuity that is a yeast reactor. It takes me back to the stone age, were I belong. With the approximate 8psi of pressure yeast create during their growth phase, smaller tanks do need to be concerned about CO2 at night, much larger tanks maybe less so. I believe Biollante has invented an apparatus to be worn during the day that allows him to breath and the exhaled breath is channeled into his fish tanks. The image is quite amusing. I wish I could draw the picture of him taking a nap on a cot while hooked up to the thing. Thanks for sharing the video.
     
  15. Gbark

    Gbark Guru Class Expert

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    I don't use DIY CO2, but if you wanted to i cant see any reason in using two solinoid valves, they can be picked up cheap on Ebay.

    Put a T piece in line then a soilinoid off each end. one line goes to your tank, and the other to atmosphere. then add two timers, as the tank closes the other opens.

    Ok you waste CO2 over night but u don't lose pressure in your bottle.

    just an idea :)
     
  16. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    @Gbark,

    Yes thats a good Idea indeed. Eventually i will be getting Cylinder for sure, but i want to settle the tank and let this summer go away. (i am still deciding on carpetting with riccia on stones or something else.)

    Tug, I hav removed the old video and updated latest one after cleaning, rearranging and adding drop-checker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F69e8QpwHHE
     
  17. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Hi anshuman

    Those are some beautiful fish! I didn't see many until the first "BANG" and they all came out to check it out. It made me jump. LOL You know that you really shouldn't make loud noises like that around them.

    Here is another way to add CO2 and O2. You can run your DIY CO2 24/7 into your tank. Hook up an air pump with a fine mist air stone connected to a timer. Turn it on when the lights go out and vice versa. You'll need a check valve, tubing and a gang valve for it as well. You can play around with the amount of time that it is on and off by checking your drop checker. You may only need to run it a few hours if your CO2 isn't good or all night if your CO2 is good or something in between. Just keep in mind that the drop checker has lag time. This way you can "tune" your aquarium so that it gets close to maximum CO2 and maximum O2. This way, both your fish and your plants are happy.

    Is your drop checker blue or dark green? I couldn't tell.

    Left C
     
    #17 Left C, May 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2010
  18. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    it was midnight yesterday when taking pics, there was wedding ceremony in the vicinity and loud crackers were shooting up in sky. heh. ya the fish were pissed.

    thats a nice tip, I do have Limestone airstone (which has v fine pores and gives mist if airpump is slow) I will definitely think of that.

    The drop checker was added with reagent some minutes before taking the vid. Right now the colour is between green and blue tinge. I know the danger is when it start's yellowing, so keeping eye on that.

    And yes the fishies are beautiful right now they v confused what is going on in tank :D. As i look back right now, everyone in tank is playing after feast on fresh bloodworms.
     
  19. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    It was funny. The first boom went off and all the fish came out to check it out. When there was a second boom, none of the fish paid any attention to it. LOL

    I never see any killifish for sale where I live in NC. Where do you live?
     
  20. anshuman

    anshuman Prolific Poster

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    mumbai india :D.

    got them from ebay and hatched them myself , sold of half of the stock to another hobbyist.
     
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