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Differential growth of plants

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by Gautam, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Dear Tom/ Plant Guru Team

    Recently a friend of mine has setup a tank which is 2 months Old.

    100 Liters tank. Light is 110w PLL, Full spectrum color 5400, with CRI > 90. (Osram 954). 10 hours a day with timer

    Water Hardness 150 ppm as CaCO3, pH 6.5 to 7.0.

    Pressurised CO2, 2 bubbles per second thru a reactor. Filter Ehiem 2213.

    Substrate
    Bottom Layer : River Silt + Humus mix (10%) - 1 to 1.5 inch
    Top layer : Washed silica gravel.
    Mulm from an old tank was added.

    Fertliser dosing : NO3 - 3 to 5 ppm, PO4 : 1.0 ppm, K : 6 to 8 ppm, thrice a week
    Micro mix solution with 8% iron : three times a week to maintain minimum 0.1 ppm iron.

    Problem

    HC is not growing at all but not dying either. Some leave are truning brownish/Yellow.
    Star Grass is growing normally but new shoots are whitish/yellowish, The whole plant apprears unhealthy/yellowish.
    Glossos new shoots are yellowish and appears unhealthy.

    Hygrophila Rosenervig, Hydrocotyle verticiliata and Mosses growth are good and appears healthy. Leaf colour is green and Rosenervig is red
    Blyxa Japonicas after initial hick ups are now settling

    What could be the problem with particulary star grass, this plant is growing rapidly but unhealthy. Is it because of water hardness or anything else. The micronutrient mixture used contains excess copper in chelated form.

    Green Spot Algae can be seen on the glass.

    Why are the plants showing differential growth and what can be done to get an uniform growth

    Thanking you in advance.

    Gautam
     
  2. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hello Gautam,

    Here are a few things that come to mind.

    1. How is it being determined the ppm of fertilizers added?

    2. What is the concentration of CO2 and what is being used to measure it?

    3. PLL lighting? Not sure what this is. At 4.2 watts to the gallon this is a lot of light. Cut the light in half or raise the fixture if desired.
    For example, I grow Glosso at about 1.7 watts of T5 in 14" water depth.
     
  3. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Bubbles per second doesn't measure how much CO2 is in the water. A drop checker will get you close to a good measurement, but in the end, you have to slowly adjust it, watching for fish distress (fading colors, clustering at top, usually in a corner, of the tank), and pearling of the plants, to get to a good level of CO2 in the water. Even then, if you don't have really good water circulation in the tank, some of the plants can be starved for CO2. Your observations of the plants seem to me to be symptoms of inadequate CO2.
     
  4. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Vaughn. You have told me before about Drop Checker. Not an easy thing to get in India. I will try to get one from Singapore. But then why is there a diffrential gorwth? Some are growing some are not growing.

    Hi Mooner! I will reduce the light. Yes imbalance between CO2 and light can cause a problem. But then again the same question why is there a diffrential gorwth rate?

    I will check on the pearling and respond.

    Thanks again

    Gautam
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    HC is a weed.
    If it's not grfowing and you have a lot of light+ nutrients...........what is left?
    Stargrass does the same thing.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Pardon me Tom couldnot follow you.

    My question was while plants like Hygrophila Rosenervig, Hydrocotyle verticiliata and Mosses are growing why are others like Star Grass showing an unhealthy growth. Basically new leaves of Stargrass are yellowish or whitish which may be due to lack of some specific nutrient. But then again if nutrient was an issue then others should have shown some deficiency sypmtoms too.

    Please look at the enclosed pictures to get an idea.

    VaughnH: CO2 may not be the issue as enough pearling can be noticed. I will wait for the dropcheckers

    Picture 004.jpg

    Picture 005.jpg
     
  7. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    A big problem with CO2 is getting it distributed around the tank to all of the plants. Even with good water circulation there are gradients in CO2 concentration around the tank. I suspect the plants doing well (not counting the moss) are using up the CO2 and leaving too little for those not doing well. I'm currently playing with a reverse flow undergravel filter as a means of distributing the CO2 more uniformly, and right under the plants, because of problems I had trying for good CO2 distribution in the tank. You might want to think about trying that the next time you set up a tank. I use an external CO2 reactor in the canister filter return line, then connect that line to the inlet for the RFUG. So far it seems to be effective - about 3 weeks.
     
  8. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Good idea. Thanks. I will setup a new tank and try this out
     
  9. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Forgot to mention, CO2 maynot be an issue ultimately. See we are not using drop checkers or CO2 meters but then CO2 was so high at one point that fishes were gasping. Then we reduced CO2.

    Can light be a problem? You know high CO2 but low light and hence some nutrinet binding problem resulting in deficiency?
     
  10. tinkerman

    tinkerman Subscriber

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    Just an idea but is it possible that some plants are eating up all the ferts and starving a few.
     
  11. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    May be. That is what I am trying to find out
     
  12. tirtha1979

    tirtha1979 Prolific Poster

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    Gautam... now a days Drop Checker is available in India easily. The ADA one and The Regular chinese products. I am using a Chinese Drop checker for last 1 year and it's working too good. Drop me a mail to tirtha1979@gmail.com, I will help you to get a drop checker in India itself. :)
     
  13. Gautam

    Gautam Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Tirtha. I visit IAH and seen some of your posts. I keep visiting Gurgaon from time to time. I will drop in a mail when I visit next.

    It's nice to see committed planted tank hobbyists like me. 7/8 years back when I left my discusses and black arawanas to pursue aquascaping little did I know of Tom Barr/ Plant Guru Team and even enthusiasts like you at India only. It feels great now to get help from all around the World and reminds me of Thomas Friedman's "The World is Flat". Back then my only source of authentic information was Mr. Nitish Patel in Mumbai and even before that Andrew in Calcutta. My regards to them. Suddenly became nostalgic, pls forgive. Do keep in touch
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Gautam,

    I would as advised previously lower your lighting intensity.

    High light=high growth rates=high nutrient demand including c02.

    It is possible that even though the c02 makes the fish gasp that there is still not enough getting to all plants.

    My HC did not grow until I positioned a Hydor Koralia powerhead across where the HC grew. Made a huge difference.

    Also plant bio-mass, thickets of plants, and scaping could also block flow/current from all areas of the tank.

    Perhaps you need a trim?

    What kind of filtration/powerheads are you using?

    As Tom stated, you have enough light and nutrients, so c02 is all that is left really, assuming that all other parameters are in line.

    Hope this helps.
     

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