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Different CO2 forms under low vs. high pH

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Marcel G, Oct 11, 2012.

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  1. detlef

    detlef Member

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    So yes, it seems to kill not just moss and other finely leaved plants in the long run! At least that is what I've seen on my specimen of Crypt. balansae (don't know which one exactly it is). After two weeks of using the recommended dose of EC leaves slowly started to disintegrate. After another two weeks I stopped adding it altogether. Plants bounced back nicely afterwards with no more than the usual rate of decay. But spiro was dead and did not reappear since.
    Lesson learned: Folks should be really careful with dosing glutaraldehyde even when it comes to plants!

    Regards, Detlef
     
    #21 detlef, Oct 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2012
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Algae fix however(herbicide Busan 77) does NO HARM to moss or any plant I have or tried it on. So for the issue of green algae, Algae fix is a better solution, then good/better CO2/O2.
    Easy Carbo is a 10% solution also, whereas Excel is a 1.5% solution, so the more concentrated stuff will toast plants when spot treating, where the Excel might not, but be less effective at spot treating the algae also.

    Once you kill the algae(H2O2, did not perform well, Excel, or algaefix), then correcting the root issue is done.
    Hopefully you correct it before treatment/s, then apply. Hair algae is a tough algae to get rid of, I've done it old school methods and with a few chemicals, but algae fix was the best product to date if you know/have a good idea of the root issue.
     
  3. fplata

    fplata Member

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    Tom, do you know is algae fix harms beneficial bacteria, the reason I ask is because I noticed a mild ammonia increase when using algae fix, however I was also dosing co2 at above 75ppm which I know is very high. I do t have fauna in that tank, but it is fully cycled.
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I imagine it does cause some reduction. The NH4 could be from algal release/death, inverts more likely though...........they are loaded with NH4, whereas plant/algae tissue much less so, many microinverts are present we do not see.
    The NH4 spike may help the plants also, as many report nicer growth for a little while after.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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  6. Mastertech

    Mastertech New Member

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    Has anyone ever tested this process to find a possible dosing regimen for very hard water tanks with non co2 enrichment. ( though it may not be efficient) Maybe creating a process of frequent small water changes that have been treated with acetic acid? or auto top off with hard water that is grated with acetic acid? In order to increase co2
     
  7. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    [Цитата="Тома Барра, должность: 89516, участников: 11"][/Цитата]
    Hello, do I understand ? The supply of carbon dioxide in the aquarium should be set up in such a way that the pH did not fall below than 0.5. Otherwise, we will get toxic effect of hydrogen ions?
     
  8. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    No, that is not correct. The drop in pH caused by adding CO2 does not harm the fish. People add enough CO2 to drop the pH by 1.0 or even 1.3 without harming the fish, if there is enough oxygen dissolved in the water. It is the CO2 itself that can harm the fish, not the drop in pH.
     
    DutchMuch likes this.
  9. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    Meant that hydrogen ions hinder the uptake of calcium by plants and we can get "sciatica". Hence the difference of pH we can determine a safe (for calcium absorption)the quantity of supplied carbon dioxide.
     
  10. snarkingturtle

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    pH is a measure of H ions. There is no difference between a pH of 6.5 with CO2 or pH of 6.5 without CO2 in terms of H ions.
     
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  11. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    To get water with a pH less than need to make a certain number of hydrogen ions. And these H ions can be an excessive amount. Right?
     
  12. snarkingturtle

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    Yes but CO2 is irrelevant. If the pH is OK at 6.5 then it's OK. It doesn't matter why it's 6.5. Could be from the substrate, could be from tannins, could be from a 15ppm CO2 or 40ppm CO2. Regardless of what caused that pH, the concentration of H ions at 6.5 is 3.16227766e-7 mols/L
     
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  13. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    Well. Then I don't understand why when applying carbon dioxide my plants get "sciatica" , and without supply everything is fine?
     
  14. snarkingturtle

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    I would guess that the plants are growing faster with more CO2 and are therefore requiring more nutrients and something that was not limited at slow growth rates becomes limiting at higher growth rates. What are your water parameters and fert dosings? Any photos of your plants?
     
  15. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    [Цитата="snarkingturtle, должность: 145107, член: 39096"]я бы предположил, что растения растут быстрее, с более СО2 и, следовательно, требует больше питательных веществ, и то, что было не ограничено при медленном росте цены становится ограничивающим при высоких темпов роста. Какие параметры воды Ферт и подкормки? Любые фотографии ваших растений?[/Цитата]
    So it was 4 weeks ago. Now deletes all macro-micro. Reduction of CO2 emissions up to 25 vials per minute for 24 hours. To recover the water to use SaltyShrimp Bee shrimp mineral GH+ . Before substitution in the aquarium NO3 10 mg/l, PO4 0.25 mg/l . Mats Premium Soil Substrate. Tried adding only phosphate. Phosphate is constantly somewhere to go . And in the water more than 0.25 mg/l does not hold.Now the plants began to recover

    а свету 3.JPG

    макрандра со светом и удо.JPG

    на свету 2.JPG

    на свету.JPG

    на свету1.JPG
     
    #35 Andrey Baglaj, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  16. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    Так это было 4 недели назад. Теперь удаляются все макро-микро. Снижение выбросов CO2 до 25 пузырьков в минуту в течение 24 часов. Чтобы восстановить воду использовать SaltyShrimp Bee и креветки минеральная GH и+ . Перед подменой в аквариуме концентрации NO3 10 мг/л, Ро4 0,25 мг/л . Матс Премиум Почвенного Субстрата. Пробовал добавлять только фосфат. Фосфат постоянно куда-то уходит . И в воде более чем на 0,25 мг/л не дотягивает.Теперь заводы начали восстанавливаться.
     
  17. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    Today micrandra the Rotala looks like this : without parole and a minimum of CO2.

    IMG_1212.JPG

    IMG_1213.JPG

    IMG_1214.JPG

    IMG_1215.JPG

    IMG_1216.JPG

    IMG_1217.JPG

    IMG_1218.JPG

    IMG_1219.JPG

    IMG_1220.JPG
     
    #37 Andrey Baglaj, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  18. snarkingturtle

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  19. Andrey Baglaj

    Andrey Baglaj New Member

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    So it was 4 weeks ago. Now deletes all macro-micro. Reduction of CO2 emissions up to 25 vials per minute for 24 hours. To recover the water to use SaltyShrimp Bee shrimp mineral GH+ . Before substitution in the aquarium NO3 10 mg/l, PO4 0.25 mg/l . Mats Premium Soil Substrate. Tried adding only phosphate. Phosphate is constantly somewhere to go . And in the water more than 0.25 mg/l does not hold.Now the plants began to recover
     
    snarkingturtle likes this.
  20. Christophe

    Christophe Subscriber
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    Those macrandra tips are looking better.
     
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