Diatoms or something else

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

Having an appearance of a brown 'algae' for lack of a better term or id

It has covered the manzy wood for awhile and is now getting on the rocks heavily and more of the plants like anubias and the crypts.

It rubs/cleans fairly easily but comes back within a few days..

Many areas are NOT affected but I think it is spreading for sure...

New growth on plants is good and NOT affected...I have been slowly increasing c02 the last few weeks and adding 02 and playing with flow..but this issue was long before this on the wood especially..

9 hours of T8 light, c02, EI for 2x180 gallon, decent fish load. High current and filtration..

PAR of 40 max at substrate and 100 or so at surface...

Appreciate any thoughts...

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg182/gerrydirish/Brown algae diatoms/?albumview=slideshow

 

[fjf888]

To my highly untrained eye it looks like diatoms. Do you have an algae crew?

 

[Hallen]

Hey Gerry,

Yup those are the normal old brown diatoms, otocinclus eat it very well. Unless something in your tank is leaking quite some silicates I'm suspecting the low light setup to be the cause of them

 

[Gerryd]

Hi folks.

Well in Oct I added 4-6 bags of flourite to add some sloping....

I think it is the light and have posted a new thread looking for T5 opinions...

NO algae crew, not sure why not.....

Thanks!

 

[fjf888]

I think it is the light and have posted a new thread looking for T5 opinions...
Thanks!

Say it isn't so! Get some otos and amanos and stick with the t-8's, don't shake my faith in the low light setup

 

[Gerryd]

Fred,

I am at the limit of PAR for my fixtures...they are as close to the water as they are going to get

I am avg 20-35 at substrate and Tom mentions 50 a lot. His 180, ADA, I know dutchy uses 50 as well..

So, not like I am going back to 76-100 micromoles at the substrate!

I also think there is a greater variety of T5 bulbs, especially the 3' length.....

 

[Biollante]

Hang Tough, Big Guy

Hi Gerry,

I am with Fred; this is no time to be running for the tall grass…:gw Hang tough on the lighting…

Speaking of lighting, has there been a seasonal change in the ambient lighting?

• One thing I have noticed with lower lighting is that my indoor tanks are acting a bit more like my outdoor tanks, they go through seasonal changes.

Assuming no leaks, no other big changes, substrate, huge increase in bio-load, big change of any type, I suspect your system is simply is simply adapting to a “new” lighting scheme. Give it three weeks or so, our experience is this normally clears itself in a week or two.

An algae crew is not a bad idea and Otto’s, Otocinclus affinis are always a good idea as long as you remember there special diet after the “problem” is gone (I know you will/would).

The LoudCreatureWhatSharesMySpace and I found lighter backgrounds and replacing some of our space (and some task-lighting) with “cooler” lighting say 5000-6700 Kelvin, also helps; our “natural” tanks seem to approve and have improved with the lighting.

Biollante

 

[fjf888]

Fred,

I am at the limit of PAR for my fixtures...they are as close to the water as they are going to get

I am avg 20-35 at substrate and Tom mentions 50 a lot. His 180, ADA, I know dutchy uses 50 as well..

So, not like I am going back to 76-100 micromoles at the substrate!

I also think there is a greater variety of T5 bulbs, especially the 3' length.....

I hear you, 50 seems to be a reasonable compromise. I just read an article in PFK (some older one I had lying around), that had a sentence that high tech planted tanks need 300-350 PAR.

 

[dutchy]

50 micromols can give good growth, although it can still be too low. Depends on which plants you want to grow and how tall you want them. If you want 20 inch tall stems, it might not be enough because of shading.

With the plants that you have, I think it will be enough, although if your Stauro stretches you will still be on the low side. depending on how our tank is designed we need the appropriate amount of light. I would take care of some possibillity to fiddle around with the PAR.

regards,
dutchy

 

[fjf888]

Fred,

I am at the limit of PAR for my fixtures...they are as close to the water as they are going to get

I am avg 20-35 at substrate and Tom mentions 50 a lot. His 180, ADA, I know dutchy uses 50 as well..

So, not like I am going back to 76-100 micromoles at the substrate!

I also think there is a greater variety of T5 bulbs, especially the 3' length.....

Didn't you have halide fixture that you raised up to the point where you were a 50 mm at the substrate. Not the most energy efficient admittedly, but may be the most practical for a 6 ft. tank.

 

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

Say it isn't so! Get some otos and amanos and stick with the t-8's, don't shake my faith in the low light setup

Fred, not giving up, I may be TOO low is all.....I think low light is the way to go, but it is an experiment for me as my MH was MUCH brighter trust me...I need to learn the balance for my tank and plant species...

Hi Bio,

I am with Fred; this is no time to be running for the tall grass… Hang tough on the lighting…

No worries, not giving up, but cannot INCREASE PAR even if I wanted to as I have reached the limits of the fixtures. What if it indeed turns out for some reason I need min of 55 mm at substrate for my stauro?

Speaking of lighting, has there been a seasonal change in the ambient lighting?

I knew there was a reason I liked you....I knew YOU would catch that. As a matter of fact that IS an issue in that winter here in FL allows for morning eastern exposure of direct sunlight that hits the END of the tank and shines through to the other end.

HOWEVER, these diatoms were an issue before this. The ambient light IMO has only exarcerbated it.

•One thing I have noticed with lower lighting is that my indoor tanks are acting a bit more like my outdoor tanks, they go through seasonal changes.

Assuming no leaks, no other big changes, substrate, huge increase in bio-load, big change of any type, I suspect your system is simply is simply adapting to a “new” lighting scheme. Give it three weeks or so, our experience is this normally clears itself in a week or two.

An algae crew is not a bad idea and Otto’s, Otocinclus affinis are always a good idea as long as you remember there special diet after the “problem” is gone (I know you will/would).

The LoudCreatureWhatSharesMySpace and I found lighter backgrounds and replacing some of our space (and some task-lighting) with “cooler” lighting say 5000-6700 Kelvin, also helps; our “natural” tanks seem to approve and have improved with the lighting.

What you say makes sense. It has been more than several weeks now with it getting worse not better, hence my post

Many thanks for the time and responses...

 

[Gerryd]

Didn't you have halide fixture that you raised up to the point where you were a 50 mm at the substrate. Not the most energy efficient admittedly, but may be the most practical for a 6 ft. tank.

yep I still have it....

So, just to play around.....

I dusted off the MH fixture and mounted it at the highest point I can, about 10" above the water surface. Due to the 3 lenses and the way I mount the lights, they are off centered and do not provide as much light as they COULD if centered.

So, directly under the lights I have >350 micromoles at the surface I have 130-150 in the middle, and now range anywhere up to 105 micromoles at the brightest at the substrate. These readings are all directly in the brightest areas and are maxes....most areas are much lower...and will be manageable.

HOWEVER, I have no plants in the higher light areas. The stauro patch really only maxes out at 55 as opposed to 46 or so, not a huge increase.

The crypts now get more PAR but I can shade with some cover..

I moved some of the stauro to the brightest substrate area to let it take off and see what I get.

Most of the other planted areas got an increase but not all due to the scape and mounting of the lights.

Wierd but I would have thought I would have 500 mm at substrate considering they are mounted two feet lower than they were....

So will try higher light (and c02 and ferts) for several weeks and see what happens. I expect growth to explode but I am down with that..

Once things are cooking I will start to raise the fixtures and reduce the PAR every few weeks..

Will keep you all posted.

 

[Gerryd]

I notice I also now have some crypt leaf damage and loss....this was NOT the case for weeks.

I trimmed all the bad and covered leaves and will be able to guage with the MH again. I cleaned the rocks and will do the wood again next week.

I have to watch the MH as they covered the wood in clado and BBA, so not an improvement over diatoms Lol

I am also on the lookout for ottos.....they will be well fed I assure you...

 

[Gerryd]

A quick update...

I trimmed all the cyperus helferi and kept only the best leaves. I gave all the anubias an excel/water bath and trimmed it aggressively once I could see it

Did the same for the crypts, etc.

Have been doing every other day 60% water changes for the last week and will continue for the next 10 days or so. This is to promote plant growth more than anything. The fish like it too

Still can't find any otocinclus, but it 'seems' better...

Will post in several weeks once I gain some more observation time...

 

[dutchy]

Hi Gerry,

I'm at 90 micromols now at the substrate. Stauro is getting bushy, not stretching. It seems to be managable, although I can notice it's harder. faster plant growth = faster algae growth. I'm not going to pass 100 on the PAR meter, although I can have 170 at the substrate with everything at 100% with my T5's.

I'm curious about your experiences, also on the new setup.

 

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

Dutchy, I have 100+ in one small stauro area but most others are 55-60 or so. I will monitor the growth and post pics in 10 days or so and we can see how it looks compared to today...

Well I think the higher PAR values are working well on my stauro esp. I can see a lot of improvement even within the last 2 days. New growth sprouting from bare areas, roots are very well established and long, new growth is much larger, robust, and remains issue free. Most of the older algae infested leaves have fallen off and are now being replaced with new growth..The previous weeks they were not really growing and more algae was apparent...

I think 5-10 days from now will look much different..they look perky now and much more healthy...they look more now like when Tom sent them over..they are on the road to recovery I think and have turned the corner....

I think that 30-35 micromoles is not enough for stauro at least in my tank. Can't say in general Remember I am using plain flourite....

The higher light also seems to be changing the wendti leaves. They are much longer, taller, and darker in color...More what I am used to. I like it but miss the shorter growth...We'll see how it goes..

Overall growth seems more robust and larger with the increase in lighting.

I realize I am also doing extra water changes but I will soon go back to the normal schedule and we shall see...

I should get the new T5 fixture tomorrow. I got the Guisemann bulbs the other day...Very well packaged by the way....Big difference in diameter compared to T8 or T12...

I may replace the helferi with something darker like c.retrospiralis or similar. The helferi and stauro are the same shade of green and I don't like the way the two similar greens go together...

I think personally that I will go for a min avg of 50 micromoles at the substrate, with about 55-60 in the main stauro areas....I notice that it will grow in less light, but usually when the overall growth is strong. i am getting there but not yet.

Nabbed 15 alestes in the mail today so they are in quarantine for several weeks to fatten up before joining the main school. Huge difference in size not just length either....but these are juvies so not surprised..

I think the T5 spread and higher PAR will get me the look I want. I don't think growth will be too rapid. But with the new fixtures I will have flexibiity....

 

[nazrm]

Got some diatoms aswell, especially on my stauro 049:

Been doing daily 50% WC for the past 4 days, doesn't look like it's helping much. Also got some on the front glass. Not sure if I should be worried.

How's it going for you Gerryd?

 

[Htomassini]

Gerry do you use tap or ro water?

Remember this is s Florida and we have a ton of silicates in our water. I Used to have diatom issues when I used tap water. When I switched to ro they went away.




Henry t
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerryd]

nazrm,

Better overall, but a lot still on my cyperus helferi...

Seems to really like this plant.

Reducing the ambient light and doing more WC and heavy dosing is helping...

I use all tap water..Even when I lived in Ft lauderdale..I just use prime........

 

[150EH]

I know this is an old thread but my opinion may help someone in the future. I just had an outbreak of diatoms in my 8 year old 150 gallon tank after a redo of the tank. I did a lot of substrate vacuuming to get rid of old plant roots that were decaying and a lot of water changes to get some fresh water in an old neglected tank and boom, diatoms on the rock, glass, and slow growing or old plant leaves. Someone told me they are from silicates in the water or disturbed in the substrate, so no more water changes. It took 20 days of watching and waiting before they started to go away, my tap water had silicates and I most likely stirred up some that had settled in the substrate. I am trying to get a team of Oto's for diatom clean up and I am going to try homemade Osmocote gel caps for a substrate fertilizer and less water column ferts so I don't have to do as many water changes. I also started to get a light dose of thread algea at the end of the diatoms which seems to be from dosing during the outbreak along with the siliacates and no water changes. So if my new method of dosing does not work I will be investing in an RO/DI unit for silicate free water or close to it, and if you get diatoms make sure your tap water is good or else you could be feeding the problem, I hope this helps someone and I will update with new info as it comes.