Re: Curing ICK
Roan Art said:
There have been reported cases of heat resistant strains of ich:
"However, in a case in central Florida, Ich was responsible for killing fish at 92o F (33o C)."
Thanks for the info, .........it's an old trick folks have been doing for a long time that do not have ogther options and tools to deal with ich.
While there maybe some strains out there that can handle the high temps, typically, IMO, and in every other hobbyists/breeder I've ever talk to, 88F typically takes care of it without medications.
But you can use them also in conjuction with a good corrected environment and warm temps.
Therefore, IMO, heat alone may not do the trick. In many cases the fish in question are already stressed or extremely sick from the ich infestation and increasing the temperature by that amount could be enough to kill them outright. Heat also decreases the amount of oxygen in the water and the addition of airstones and/or redirection of powerheads and spraybars would be needed to ensure that the fish receive adequate amounts of oxygen.
With O2 levels well above 100% most of the day in a well run planted tank, not an issue. Lots of cover/hiding spots, high water quality, good food, reasonable stocking levels, a stressed fish should not be purchased at a LFS to begin with.
If you add that part, you'll see rather quickly why few planted tanks tend to ever get ich to begin with. Ask around about this. You'll be surprised at the few cases, and especially compared to the fish only keepers.
With dosing Maracide at ½ strength you risk not killing all the tomites and those that are not killed will attach themselves to the fish and the cycle continues.
That's algae talk. Think beyond
the disease, the pest etc.
Think what makes the fish happy?
Just like the plants, what makes them happy?
Then go about doing just that.
1/2 strength is very wise in most cases since many have catfish, tetras, other scaleless and sensitive fish. The ich is being attacked by placing the fish in a better tank environment, high heat and 1/2 dosing of a medication that is highly effective even at this concentration level.
Using that and heat and a good environment takes care of even the worst issues.
Ich is generally introduced to any tank, planted or not, via non-quarantined fish or animals, plants, nets, decorations, etc.,. that have live ich on them. Drying out nets and non-living things will kill ich outright. Fish should be quarantined at least 3 weeks before introducing them to any tank and plants dipped and/or quarantined in fishless tanks for 3-7 days.
For all the quarantine talk in mags and elsewhere, it is seldom done except with breeders and few hobbyists. I fully support quarantines
But few are going to do this for all the nagging I may do.
Live food(except for Brine) is the biggest potential disease vector I know of.
Not new fish, wild fish/plants added etc. I've been adding live material from the wilds for many years. Never an issues, many other sreport the same.
I'm not saying it cannot happen, but it's rare and virtually non existant in a well run planted tank. If that was not the case, I should have lost a lot more fish and had more algae outbreaks.
You lost me here, Tom. I don't see the correlation between planted tanks and no ich. Seriously. Planted or not if proper percautions are not taken with the introduction of new flora and fauna, ich can show up in any tank. It can also be eradicated from any tank.
Have you asked around and checked into whether folks have more or less ich related issues with a planted tank?
Why do fish get ich or any disease for that matter?
I can assure you that it takes a weakened or injured animal to become suspeptible to most disease.
In natural systems, the diseases are present but seldom ever hit unless the animals have been stressed.
This applies to most pest/parasites.
If they killed the healthy host, then they'd no longer have a host to survive.
So a healthy host is not going to have an issue.
Introductions from outside sources(besides live foods) will no longer matter if you provide a happy home for fish.
Happy plants = happy fish.
Simple concept and it does effectively work in practical application.
No idea about the public aquariums. Do you have a link I could read up about that?
You are welcomed to call Monterey Bay Aquarium, The Steinhart aquarium, the Shedd Aquarium etc and ask them directly. This is very old news to them.
Treat 500,000 gallons sometime. 55gal drums of of Malachite green is not a fun thought.
I've never had any diseases in my tanks since 1994 when I switched entirely to planted tanks.
I've added plenty of fish over the years that had some mild ich, a few that had more serious cases. I did not treat it. I added them to the tank, 1-3 days later, all gone. I also use to breed rift fish and have bred a number of fish accidently in planted tanks over the years.
I started with 20 cherry shrimp, I now have 200 3 months later. Congo tetras, pencil fish, Apistos, Discus, bushy nose plecos.
More fellow hobbyists/breeders than I can count have reported the same things over the decades. I started working in LFS in 1977.
The advice is a combo of common sense and practical experiences with a huge number of aquarist, both professional public aquarist as well, as business owners, professional breeders and just the hobbyists who likes to keep a tank.
General things about ich's causes:
Stress causes this disease.
Remove the stress, then quarantine/medication will no longer be needed.
Similarly: take good care of the plants and give them what they need to grow well=> no algae.
The environment is critical.
Careful not to let the tail wag the dog.
Too many look for disease cures, algae cures etc to make up for their lack of providing a proper environment for a plant of a fish. Fish that get sick often is not their fault or the the disease, it's the owner's fault
Ever hear the phrase: there are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners?
Rather than showing aquarist how to treat a never ending array of diseases/algae, I focus more on the environment.
The diseases and algae are useful indicators though of what maybe wrong. I use that also.
I try to get folks to think from the other direction, your fish will be healthier as will your plants. But there's nothing wrong with a little directed proven help such as malachite green and a few other medications but that is just the icing on the cake, the main focus should be the correct the problem that causes the disease or algae to begin with, that's the best long term solution and will make any issues much more benign.
You'll notice I suggested multiple things to address ich, not just one.
Same with BGA and algae.
Kill what is there and then prevent the stress on the plant/fish thereafter.
This is a holistic integrated approach to managing disease and algae.
You start building any ecosystem from the bottom up=> good environment for plants= good environment for fish= happy aquarist.