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coast to coast and a new pump

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by shoggoth43, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I decided that my maxijet 5500 utility pump was too loud. The hum is driving me nuts and being bored decided that perhaps a change was in order. I tried a quiet one 4000 high head model, it was much louder. I was told eheim was quiet so I tried their 1262 model. This was at least as loud as the 5500 and came with Floor Flooding Action as an added feature. A bad O ring on the volute, but I was somewhat less than impressed and the impeller is not one of the curved high efficiency ones. That one is going back.

    So I need to find a silent, or damned near, pump. This is on my 120 so call it 600 GPH at 4 foot head. It's just going to go to a return manifold, no cannisters or anything. Suggestions?

    Also, I've been more than a little curious about the coast to coast overflows. Has anyone used them for a planted tank? Given the surface skimming ability of them I think this would be a good way for a non CO2 tank to get a constant supply of CO2 even if only at low levels it should at least remain consistent. Lower the lighting a bit and it should work pretty well. At least in my head the theory is sound.

    I've got a few tanks I could try this on. A 40, the 29 biocube, and the 120. The 40 is probably the least iffy. I think I could put some 1" bulkheads in near the top and then glue in a sheet of glass/acrylic to cover the bottom of the bulkheads angling it out a bit but with the top of the piece a little under the plastic trim. Presto, instant 36" work of surface skimming. I've got a 15 gallon I could use as a sump for that.

    Alternately I could route down the glass or slot it out and mount a box on the back of the tank for an external overflow.

    I should be able to do a similar thing with the 29. If I rip out the false wall of the tank I might be able to gain some more internal space but that section won't be well lit. I could probably just tweak things a bit as is, but the idea of using the stand for a decent sump and filter is rather intriguing.

    The 120 will probably have to wait until I get some other experience with the smaller tank. Too big to mess with as a first project. However, building in the overflows should let me get better surface movement, as well as use much larger bulkheads and piping which should hopefully allow for silent movement of water to the sump without needing the overflow silencing devices. Water return is either going to be a manifold at the rear of the tank, possibly extending to the sides, or a spraybar mounted under the overflow pointing either down, or perhaps toward the bottom front of the tank.

    Before I go drilling, cutting, and generally making a mess, does this really get me anything? I like the idea of hiding EVERYTHING in the sump and even the overflow itself as only a thin line will be visible from below the waterline. If the gas exchange is too much, this may be counter productive for a high tech tank, but the reduced splashing and such might actually help retain the CO2 better than a "normal" overflow.

    Thoughts?

    -
    S
     
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    S,

    Am still mulling this over and will respond later. Am trying to rescape my 180 atm and that is consuming me.

    I personally think the coast to coast would work well. I had wanted that design myself and dislike the corner overflows..as well as the center mounted one ugh lol

    The waterfall effect is one of the biggest causes of outgassing IMO/IME. When I reduced from 2-3" to
     
  3. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Dead Quiet... With A Little Heat

    Hi S,

    Drilling tanks... Good... Bigger is better. If you are considering 1 inch go with 1.5 inch.:)

    Given the experience Inkslinger has had I am reluctant to give my recommendation for pumps...

    But here goes anyway

    • For pure quiet and reliability in smaller pressure rated pumps, I do not think you can beat the Bluleine series. I have been running an 55 HD for quite a while and it is dead quiet at 13 or so feet of head and a measured better than 450-gph.. (It is likely my method of pressure control reduces total volume.)
    • For 600-gph at 4 feet, I would consider the Blueline 40 HD or the 40 HD-X .
    • Actually I would recommend the 55 HD, more is better...:)
    The price for the quiet seems to be some added heat, though I have not experienced the levels Inkslinger has.

    Biollante
     
  4. inkslinger

    inkslinger Guru Class Expert

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    Hey biollante got to get back on that issue of the heat ,
    I just had surgery on my right foot 3 weeks ago and can't walk on it for 4 months and just the other day i experience a leak that i caught on time {about 1/2 inch of water lost from my 110g tank} at the mazzie. My wife help me take the canopy off and my 10yr help me drain the tank 1/4 of the way and take all the pvc off . I'm going to separate my {bottle neck} 2 lines with 1 inch braided hose an 2 separate returns . My intake, I will keep still 1 inch for know an change the bottom over to 1 inch braided hose as will to get rid of the elbows to the pump.{ in 5 months when my foot gets better I will get a 1.25 or 1.5 inch intake}
    The only thing I'm also keeping the same for now also is after the pump I have a elbow an the Wye that splits too the Nu-Clear filters and the Mazzie, I have not fig. out what I could do to that yet but will let you know later about my heat issue.
    I also was thinking about that BlueLine 40 HD down the road. Right now I have my old just like new Aqua Supreme King! running my tank for now!
     
    #4 inkslinger, Dec 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2010
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Bit Of A Hijack...

    Hi Inkslinger,

    Sorry to hear about the foot... :(

    Good thing you caught the leak when you did, with everything else going on it can be easy to miss a minor leak. :eek:

    I have come to the conclusion there is just some flaw in your 55 HD, I now own two and know two others who own Pan World pumps and even convoluted plumbing only adds head, not heat, at least not as you have experienced. :rolleyes:

    The separate returns are a good idea and I am a fan of braided hose, many think it is overkill, but it simplifies many design considerations (literally a little flexibility:p) and gives an extra level of security. :cool:

    Biollante
     
  6. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    No worries on the threadjacking. It's all useful to know.

    I already use braided hose on the intake side to try and reduce any vibration or mismatch which could strain the pump and cause vibration and such. The 55 might be a bit of overkill for my application but the 40 HD-X seems like a good fit. Wattage is higher than the one I'm using now, but to be honest I'm not sure the reported wattage is legit. 75W for 1300GPH but 1.25A? Something is amiss on the label I think. Still, considering what I've done to it it's survived well enough but if these are dead silent, and the build quality looks excellent, then they're probably worth looking at. I may also have to consider upsizing the intake on mine to see if that makes much of a difference. Need to start actually paying attention to the tank as well which might improve things somewhat...

    -
    S
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    I Like Quiet Pumps...

    Hi S,

    My guess is you will find the true wattage about the same, my older 55 runs under claimed power consumption and the new one pulls a little more power but is still at the rated wattage. :)

    I am very happy with the Pan World pumps... :) The company, see below... :p

    My only reservation is Inkslingers experience... :(

    The sample size is small so one bum pump is a large percentage and frankly the company response to requests for information (a proper manual) has left something to be desired so my recommendation comes with that reservation. :gw

    Biollante
     
  8. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    If it works for a long time and it's quiet I'm not too worried about a manual. Any ideas on how they are for warranty and parts? Hopefully neither is really required.

    I've gotten my pump a touch quieter after messing around with some height adjustments ( i.e. thinner pad underneath it ) which may have been torquing the pump housing slightly. Still, even in free flow in the tank it's loud so it'll have to go.

    -
    S

     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    A date which will live in infamy...

    Hi S,

    I have not had any warranty problems with my pumps so I really cannot say... Based on my pumps I would say they are excellent. :)

    I know the comparison is to Iwaki, so these may be the gold standard and you may want to look at them as well. The two Iwaki's I have seen, one comparable to mine and one larger I was not overly impressed, both seemed noisier than mine, though that may just be my bias since I had already forked out the money for my first pump. :p

    I have also been told there is a difference between the “American” and “Japanese” models and I have not a clue about which I saw. :confused:

    I suspect that installation (mounting, plumbing, so forth) makes a difference in quietness. Due to location and activities around the aquarium, this installation requires quiet operation. :cool:

    Biollante
     
  10. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Gerry,

    Here's two different overflow designs, one with pipe and one with just a single pane of glass.
    http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=34427.0;prev_next=next

    I'm thinking of the single pane idea, ~2/3rds down.

    You can do two panes of glass to make a box across the tank.
    A lot of the time the front pane will be black or blue to blend in with the background and hide the bulkheads as well as any algae.
    Leaving the bottom clear will help reduce any loss of light underneath the box, providing it's not coated in algae.

    http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585

    And a good shot of an external model ~2/3rds down as well.

    http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/equipment/54089-lets-see-those-coast-coast-calfo-overflows.html

    Hopefully this explains more about what I'm thinking. I'll try it out on the 15 gallon sump first before I move up in tank size. Might as well break a smaller/cheaper tank if I screw up on cutting the holes.

    -S
     
  11. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Well, I changed out my plumbing a little. From the existing overflow box I have a 1 1/4" siphon tube ( instead of the original 1" ) going to two 1" feeds down to the sump. Only one of the 1" feeds is full of water. The full siphon feed goes to a 1" gate valve on the sump. I still need to setup the durso/emergency feed as I found things running a bit high the other night and it did not flush as expected but was in no real danger of overflow so at least it works. The gate valve adjustment works very well though. The feed from the pump is now a 3/4" through a gate vavle to the tank. All tubing is reinforced hose. I still need to install the manifold and Loc-Line. However, I can now run the existing pump full open and have the overflow keep up. Sadly the pump is still noisy as heck and needs to go. A BlueLine 40HD would give me ~720GPH so it's similar to my current pump and would hopefully at least be silent. The 40 HDx would give me nearly 1000 GPH in the same configuration but has less head pressure overall. The 50 HD would be so overkill it's not even funny in terms of power consumption and head height but would give me some options later on if I want to combine tanks. Not really sure on this just yet.

    CO2 injection is a pretty ghetto method. Needlewheel powerhead aimed into the main pump bulkhead in the sump. This pretty much smashes any/all CO2 up into tiny bubbles which aren't really noticeable. This may be replaced with and UP Aqua device at some point although the feed into the main pump may remain the preferred method as this keeps this out of the main tank. I also replaced the Koralia with a new 1050 evolution model. With everything wide open I've got something like 15X+ turnover and the inhabitants are considerably less than amused by this so it's throttled back quite a bit.

    For my other experiments I may work on an internal V shaped wier with an external box to contain the water and allow for vertical standpipe/bulkheads which may allow for easier plumbing. I'm not entirely sure how this will work just yet. I need to get some mockups in place. I also still need to get a better method of mechanical filtration. The current prefilter and secondary pad in the wet/dry is proving too cumbersome and pretty much guarantees the pad on the wet/dry is never cleaned. I definitely need to come up with a better method and was considering a filter sock which is always completely submerged which will hopefully eliminate any outgassing concerns. I just have to think of how to do the baffles and such for this.

    -
    S
     
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