Co2 With Low Light And Low Light Plants?

[rs18alpha]

Recently I've got a lot of help from bur740 and fablau trying to get my CO2 figured out.
And I think I've got it..
I was having algae issues with my high out put light until fablau I think, suggested I put an aluminium screen under the light to lower the intensity. That seems to have done the trick. I'm going to give a couple more weeks to see.

So, I was looking at my low tech tank and I started to wonder if I could use CO2 with low light and low light plants? Plants like Anubias, Crypts, and maybe Java ferns.

I'm going to assume that 30ppm of CO2 would be the target.

I was hoping some one out there has experience with this??

 

[CRS Fan]

With lower lighting levels and lowlight plants, I would aim for a 10-20 ppm range. You can go to the Tropica website and get specific plants target CO2 ranges.

Best regards,

Stuart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rs18alpha]

Thanks, I'll check it out. If I have lower light would it be a good idea to start off with about half the EI dosing levels?

 

[skija]

Java fern loves co2, adding co2 to ANY PLANTED tank will only help even if you are having easy plants and low light

 

[a1matt]

I'm going to assume that 30ppm of CO2 would be the target.

I was hoping some one out there has experience with this??

You can target any ppm you want, depends on your goal.

Eg. I once put as low a rate as i could onto a nano tank, as the downoi was failing. The aim was as little growth as possible, while keeping the plants alive and healthy under low light. It worked, just the tiniest bit of co2 resulted in really robust plants.
It was no doubt helped by slow rates of growth (determined by low light). Tank was a temporary shrimp holding tank, so was taken down after about 6 months.

 

[tiger15]

I have low light plants (fern, Anubias, crypt and Buce), medium light and co2 injection. Before I had co2, I have major algae issue and near zero growth rate. With co2, I have only minor bba on old leaves, no other algae, and steady growth rate of about 1 leaf per plant per week. My co2 level is only around 15 ppm. Correct me if I’m wrong, I think low light plant can get burnt with excessive light, but can take as much as co2 is available. The 30 ppm target limit is to protect fish, not plants.

 

[VaughnH]

I have never seen a plant get damaged from too much light. The main effect of too much light that I have seen is rampant BBA growth, especially on low growth rate plants like anubias. Here is some information about using CO2 with low light tanks: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussions/133058-diy-co2.html I have been using about 10-20 ppm of CO2, with low to medium light, for over a year now and it is working out very well. Any CO2 amount improves the plant growth compared to none.

 

[rs18alpha]

I have never seen a plant get damaged from too much light. The main effect of too much light that I have seen is rampant BBA growth, especially on low growth rate plants like anubias. Here is some information about using CO2 with low light tanks: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussions/133058-diy-co2.html I have been using about 10-20 ppm of CO2, with low to medium light, for over a year now and it is working out very well. Any CO2 amount improves the plant growth compared to none.

Hey VaughnH, thanks for the info. My next question is how often I should dose the ferts? And how much ppm for each dose I should use?

 

[rs18alpha]

I have low light plants (fern, Anubias, crypt and Buce), medium light and co2 injection. Before I had co2, I have major algae issue and near zero growth rate. With co2, I have only minor bba on old leaves, no other algae, and steady growth rate of about 1 leaf per plant per week. My co2 level is only around 15 ppm. Correct me if I’m wrong, I think low light plant can get burnt with excessive light, but can take as much as co2 is available. The 30 ppm target limit is to protect fish, not plants.

Thanks tiger15, what type of light do you use? Do you have it elevated above the tank?

 

[tiger15]

From VaughnH’s charts, it appears that low light plants under medium light max out growth at around 15 ppm co2. There is no need, and a waste of co2, to target 30 ppm for optimum growth.

I have no direct experience on how high light may impact low light plants. But from reading others experience, low light plants can suffer from too much light.

https://barrreport.com/threads/rotala-growing-short-dense-small-and-slow.15411/#post-150592

 

[tiger15]

Thanks tiger15, what type of light do you use? Do you have it elevated above the tank?

I do not have elevated overhead leds over my 75g. I have two strip leds sitting on the rear half of the glass top. Realizing there is a gap of coverage in the front half, I tied a 48” submersible tube led on the front rim with fish line, and two 18” submersible led tubes on the side rims to provide surround coverage. The combined wattage is 112 watt and 13412 lumens. I estimated the light is medium or about 50 to 60 PAR based on Rotala Calculator.

Here is a link to description of my light. I bought all my leds from eBay, not named brand, but likely all came from the same factories in China. When buying leds, make sure there is rating on the lumens, otherwise, don’t buy as it is likely too dim for plant use.

https://barrreport.com/threads/cichlid-planted-tank.15427/#post-150728

 

[rs18alpha]

I do not have elevated overhead leds over my 75g. I have two strip leds sitting on the rear half of the glass top. Realizing there is a gap of coverage in the front half, I tied a 48” submersible tube led on the front rim with fish line, and two 18” submersible led tubes on the side rims to provide surround coverage. The combined wattage is 112 watt and 13412 lumens. I estimated the light is medium or about 50 to 60 PAR based on Rotala Calculator.

Here is a link to description of my light. I bought all my leds from eBay, not named brand, but likely all came from the same factories in China. When buying leds, make sure there is rating on the lumens, otherwise, don’t buy as it is likely too dim for plant use.

https://barrreport.com/threads/cichlid-planted-tank.15427/#post-150728

I took a look at the link. Does Matricide 14 hurt Amano shrimp?
I see you dose by the tsp. Does any one know how to convert that to ppm totals?

 

[rs18alpha]

I do not have elevated overhead leds over my 75g. I have two strip leds sitting on the rear half of the glass top. Realizing there is a gap of coverage in the front half, I tied a 48” submersible tube led on the front rim with fish line, and two 18” submersible led tubes on the side rims to provide surround coverage. The combined wattage is 112 watt and 13412 lumens. I estimated the light is medium or about 50 to 60 PAR based on Rotala Calculator.

Here is a link to description of my light. I bought all my leds from eBay, not named brand, but likely all came from the same factories in China. When buying leds, make sure there is rating on the lumens, otherwise, don’t buy as it is likely too dim for plant use.

https://barrreport.com/threads/cichlid-planted-tank.15427/#post-150728

I know that LEDs don't go by watts. If I have an led that has 108 nodes and it says it is 25 watts. So if I use this on a 40 gallon tank that would basically be a 1/2 watt per gallon. Is that correct?
I made a mistake the 25 watts was the power consumption.
This light has 72 white leds at .5watt and 36 RGB leds. I don't know if that would make the light 36watts?

 

[tiger15]

I took a look at the link. Does Matricide 14 hurt Amano shrimp?
I see you dose by the tsp. Does any one know how to convert that to ppm totals?

1 gal = 3785.41 ml
Excel is 1.5% Glut
1.5% Glut = 1.5*1000000/100 = 15,000 ppm
Excel recommends
Initial dosage after WC: 5ml of 1.5% Glut in 10 gal = 15000 * 5 / (10*3785.41) = 2 ppm
Normal daily dosage: 5ml of 1.5% Glut in 50 gal = 15000 * 5 / (50*3785.41) = 0.4 ppm

Metricide 14 is 2.6% Glut
By ratio, 1 tsp (5 ml) of Metricide 14 in 75 gal is equivalent to 0.46 ppm Glut.
You can use ratio to figure out your dosage and ppm .

I do not know Glut toxicity to Amano shrimp, but tests showed that LC50 (lethal concentration with 50% death) to glass shrimp is 41 ppm. So you can figure out your risk.

 

[tiger15]

I know that LEDs don't go by watts. If I have an led that has 108 nodes and it says it is 25 watts. So if I use this on a 40 gallon tank that would basically be a 1/2 watt per gallon. Is that correct?
I made a mistake the 25 watts was the power consumption.
This light has 72 white leds at .5watt and 36 RGB leds. I don't know if that would make the light 36watts?

The 25 watt power consumption is more correct than 36 watt. The 0.5 watt rating for the diodes is only round up number. You have low light. Try Rotala light calculator and select "cree" to figure out your light intensity.

http://www.rotalabutterfly.com/light-calculator.php

 

[VaughnH]

Hey VaughnH, thanks for the info. My next question is how often I should dose the ferts? And how much ppm for each dose I should use?

I use the Estimative Index dosing method, dosing daily, macros one day and micros the next day. The amounts I use are about half the EI dosing table amounts, in teaspoons, not by ppm. That method doesn't require an precision in dosing, because any overdosing (within limits, of course) will be corrected by the weekly 50% water changes. I use dosing bottles (https://freundcontainer.com/3250b53...MI4qeLxebm2AIVRZJ-Ch0ZyQyLEAQYAiABEgLHo_D_BwE ) and 1 ounce doses, so each bottle has 16 doses in it. That lets me measure the chemicals in larger and more accurate amounts.

The only accurate way to find out how much light you have is to use a PAR meter to measure your light intensity. Even that isn't perfect, because a light that is high in near infrared light will read lower than it is, if you use a standard Apogee PAR meter, which isn't very sensitive to near IR. If you live in the USA you can borrow a PAR meter - see https://barrreport.com/threads/apogee-par-meter-for-rent.14334/

 

[rs18alpha]

I use the Estimative Index dosing method, dosing daily, macros one day and micros the next day. The amounts I use are about half the EI dosing table amounts, in teaspoons, not by ppm. That method doesn't require an precision in dosing, because any overdosing (within limits, of course) will be corrected by the weekly 50% water changes. I use dosing bottles (https://freundcontainer.com/3250b53...MI4qeLxebm2AIVRZJ-Ch0ZyQyLEAQYAiABEgLHo_D_BwE ) and 1 ounce doses, so each bottle has 16 doses in it. That lets me measure the chemicals in larger and more accurate amounts.

The only accurate way to find out how much light you have is to use a PAR meter to measure your light intensity. Even that isn't perfect, because a light that is high in near infrared light will read lower than it is, if you use a standard Apogee PAR meter, which isn't very sensitive to near IR. If you live in the USA you can borrow a PAR meter - see https://barrreport.com/threads/apogee-par-meter-for-rent.14334/

Ok, if you tell me how much you dose N P K and Mics in each dose going by tsp I can figure out the comparison between the two. What size tank are you doing this in?

Maybe this would be better, tell me how much you are mixing in your bottles. Like how many grams of each fert in each bottle.

 

[VaughnH]

My macro ferts bottle gets 2 tsp of K2SO4, 2 tsp of KNO3 and 1 tsp of KH2PO4. It is a 16 ounce bottle, and I dose 1 ounce every other day.
My micro ferts bottle gets 1 tsp of CSM+B. It is also a 16 ounce bottle, and I dose 1 ounce every other day. When I check the NO3 in the tank water, which is pretty rare, I get about 40-60 ppm, which is why I use half K2SO4 and half KNO3 instead of just KNO3. My tank is a 65 gallon tank, with about 50 PAR lighting.