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CO2 diffusion in larger tanks

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Aknickolai, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Aknickolai

    Aknickolai Lifetime Members
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    EDIT: I see this ended up in the lighting section, I had intended to post in the general section. If anyone could move this thread or tell me how to move it that would be great!

    Now that I've got lighting all squared away, I'm putting the final touches on the filtration and CO2 distribution for my 150 medium light gallon tank. The tank measures 5'x2'x2' and I will be using two Rena XP-4 filters on it (~300 GPH if you believe the box), I've got these lying around, from a 75 and 90 gallon that I've since taken down. In the past, I have just added my CO2 reactor on the discharge line of my canister filter and called it good. This time, I would like to incorporate the addition of the venturi (as was suggested by Tom a while back) for more efficient CO2 usage and to prevent vapor lock of the reactor. I plan on doing this with a Rio 800 pump with integral venturi (rated ~200 GPM at zero head) and my C02 diffuser hanging off the back of the tank to minimize pump head. I'd probably mount the Rio about midway up the back of the aquarium, I've attached a sketch of what I am thinking.

    View attachment 3931

    My only concern is that I will suck up debris into the CO2 reactor, but I bet I could hide the pump behind a piece of wood.
     
    #1 Aknickolai, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2012
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    I moved it to the c02 section instead of the general. Your question is about c02 after all..
     
  3. Aknickolai

    Aknickolai Lifetime Members
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    I've since talked with Gerryd about this set up and have decided to re-think my filtration strategy and go with a sump. I like to tinker and commercial wet dry units are expensive, so I'm going to build a DIY sump out of a 29 gallon tank. It will look something like the sketch that I have attached to this post if anyone is interested. Target flow rate will be ~1,000 gph at the working head of the pump, this way I can get bio/mech filtration, house my heaters, and allow for me to set up a power head CO2 reactor all out of sight. At the end of the day it will save maybe 100-200$ and I'll get a filter that seems more suited to freshwater planted tanks than most of what you can buy out there.

    Filter.jpg
     
  4. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    If you can make a larger sump it would be better. a 40gal breeder perhaps?..good plans so far..how to get water INTO the sump? A cpr overflow or similar?
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You do not need to seal the entire sump, it's tough to do really, just seal the 1' foam/8x10 biomedia section.
    Acrylic and then tape it up good, you will not need to get in there much if ever.
     
  6. Aknickolai

    Aknickolai Lifetime Members
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    Most of the wet dry filters that I could buy for a 150 gallon tank were in the 25-30 gallon range, since I have a 29 gallon I figured I would base my design off that. My design will give more much more mechanical filtration with a reduction in bio filtration over an off the shelf model. I figure I can compensate for this easily enough by using a more efficient bio media then bio balls (what most wet/dry seems to be design around), and I am really excited about having a generous amount of Poret foam in there for mechanical filtration. I'll post a more detailed drawing when I have time to sketch it up.

    More volume would be useful for sure, but I wouldn't want to drop the tank height much at all. Pretty much limited to my ability to find a cheap one on craigslist in the next month or so, if not I think I'll be okay with the 29. If I increased the size of the sump, I doubt I would add any filter media, just increase my actual sump area. With my current design if I find the main sump pump takes up too much room I'll just drill the tank and add a connection for an external pump. Plus a loss of 1.5in of water in my 150 gallon tank equates to about 9 gallons of water, this should be more than enough loss to cause a drilled return tube to lose siphon and not flood my house (with the "free" space left in a 29 gal sump) in the event I lose power. A 40 gal breeder or 38 gal would be my next choices if I were to upgrade the size of the sump for sure.

    Overflow will be a CPR or Lifereef with a custom built acrylic cover, this is easier with the CPR design. BUT, the CPR does require a powerhead/lift pump to prevent the eventual buildup of an air bubble that will stop it's siphon. If that powered piece of equipment fails you're in trouble - I learned this on my discus tank... The tube design of the Lifereef is a little more of a pain to start up, but I've never lost siphon due to an air bubble in a U tube fed overflow like that. Now, that's just my experience with overflows, so I'd be curious to hear what others have to say.
     
  7. mike

    mike Guru Class Expert

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    If you can make a sump were the drains are submerged you don't even have to worry much about sealing anything. There is very little CO2 out gassing and it makes it that much more quite. You don't have that splashing sound, which is also the cause of the CO2 loss.

    Alse, be careful with a fine filter pad in the sump. I had one in my sump and it was causing the water to back up on the drain side and the pump side was getting dangerously low.

    I have since removed the fine pad and just put large block sponges on the pump intake, I believe they are 20ppi sponges.

    And btw, you will have to make the right most glass divider as high as the left most divider.

    Mike
     
  8. jerrybforl

    jerrybforl Lifetime Members
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    You will be fine with the foam pads as long as you keep them clean. They can clog up pretty fast. I did a DIY sump/refugium out of a 48 gallon tall tank. I have only one baffle, and that is to separate the return side from the refugium part. I have foam between the baffle and lip. The lip holds the substrate in place. It also works as a barrier for when I put fish to bread. Will keep the babies out of the pump! :gw

    On my drip pan, I have one layer of coarse pad and then a 50 micron pad. That goes over three gallons of bio balls. Then refugium then return. Here's a pic...

    [​IMG]

    There is one baffle that is a mistake. It's kinda under the bio balls.
     
  9. Aknickolai

    Aknickolai Lifetime Members
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    Okay, that's two folks that have mentioned the foam clogging... How long are you all talking between foam cleaning/changing? One week two weeks? I thought about this a bit, and modified the design a bit. I had to up the size to a 40 gal breeder, the cross sectional area of the foam pad exposed the flow 48in^2 to 144^2. That should provide for longer run times? Since the differential pressure pushing the water through the foam pads is just the water column from the previous baffle section, I'm not sure this will be much of an improvement though...
    [attachment=1344:name]

    I also thought about adding a pair of 7in, 200 micron filter socks to the inlet, but I can't imagine those not clogging up just as fast if not faster than 10-20ppi foam. The order seems backwards to me (mech after bio), but would a sump that is nothing but a wet/dry and a separate mechanical filter like a 100 micron Nu-clear unit be a better option than attempting mechanical filtration in the sump? The upside is you could design this such that there was a minimum flow bypass around the micron filter that would ensure 400-500gph of flow in the event the micron filter totally clogged.
    [attachment=1343:name]

    Filter2.jpg

    Filter3.jpg
     
    #9 Aknickolai, Dec 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
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