Clean the Aquarium

[PRSRocker3390]

Tank has been running for about 3-4 months. 20 gallon tall tank with a Coralife Aqualight 65 watt 6700k bulb that is on for 8 hours. I have a flourite substrate mixed in with a little bit of gravel as a filler. (The gravel is white and really shows off algae) I use dry ferts which are KNO3, KH2PO4, and Plantex CSM+B using EI method. And it seems that since i started EI dosing I have had bad algae growth with lots of new kinds of algae. The owner at my lfs thinks I'm OD'ing ferts way too much. He is also a marine biologist and he has tons of knowledge. It seemed to make sense to me. I have 3 otocinclus and one rubber lip pleco.( only gets about 5 inch max) Water changes before EI were 25 to 50 percent every week or 2. Now with EI its 50 percent one a week, every sunday. I have an Aquaclear 50 HOB and diy co2 that is diffused through a fluval plus 1 internal filter that also provides some circulation in the tank. I dont disinfect the plants before going in the tank and i really dont know how. My PH is 6.8 to 6.6 usually with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and about 20 to 30 ppms of nitrates from EI dosing. KH is 5 and GH is about 11. I have GDA and small green hairs and fuzz that grows all over the glass, GSA on the glass and also on some anubias nana leaves and some ozelot sword leaves, brown algae that is hard to remove all over the substrate(the otos dont remove it), I used to have diatoms but otos rid the tank of it, and recently have a couple of these brown balls of dust like or hair like build up and some of the stem plants. I have a few crypt wendtii red, an amazon sword that is small and wont grow, I big ozelot sword that just finished producing 6 babies, four of which made it and were planted in a smaller tank i have, i have two corkscrew val, a couple stems of rotala magenta, rotala indica ( which doesnt look good compared to my other harder rotala, go figure), and some rotala macrandra. I also have a couple small patches of dwarf hair grass that has some strands that browned but it also made some bright green new strands. About 12 stems of anacharis that i recently added to add some plant biomass to the tank to try to help, and a small stem of hornwort that will grow fast and a huge bush but i constantly trim it back down to one stem because it gets too big and it gathers lots of debris and some diatoms it appears but otos wont eat it on the hornwort. And i also have a small piece of driftwood that my anubias nana attached itself to.
Should i just massively clean the tank or blackout? I'm willing to accept i messed up an just remove all the plants and fish and gravel vac and scrub the tank. Then just add the fish and plants again and try again.

I don't know what the problem is. Should i just rebuild the whole tank and vacuum it ridiculously? That is biggest problem, the substrate. It has SOO much brown algae that the otos wont eat and too much organic matter and detritus.

 

[Tom Barr]

Tank has been running for about 3-4 months. 20 gallon tall tank with a Coralife Aqualight 65 watt 6700k bulb that is on for 8 hours. I have a flourite substrate mixed in with a little bit of gravel as a filler. (The gravel is white and really shows off algae) I use dry ferts which are KNO3, KH2PO4, and Plantex CSM+B using EI method. And it seems that since i started EI dosing I have had bad algae growth with lots of new kinds of algae. The owner at my lfs thinks I'm OD'ing ferts way too much. He is also a marine biologist and he has tons of knowledge.

So do I.......
I can do either marine or fresh, they are VASTLY DIFFERENT SYSTEMS.

It seemed to make sense to me.

The why might my tanks, as well as many thousands of others NOT have issues even with non limiting nutrients?

See below
If it's OD ing nutrient, then why is that and many others like not covered with algae and have issues?

Both cannot be right.
However, I know I am adding 30ppm of NO3, 10ppm of PO4 every week to this tank..............this is due to known values based on the weight of KNO3, KH2Po4 and the known volume of water..............

That is a sure thing.

So that pretty much falsifies any sort of excess nutrient claims.
So then what else is involved then that might cause issues?

Where does plant and algae growth start?

This guy claims to be a marine biologist, yet seems not to know much about plants or algae.

It starts with light.
In FW systms, CO2 is the big factor for submersed plants.
In marine systems, they use KH or the alkalinity.

So for FW plants, CO2 is the most typical limiting factor for virtually all systems except a few CO2 rich spring systems(no surprise, they are full of aquatic plants for hundreds of years, maybe thousand's).

FW algae are never CO2 limited, the volume of FW systems also are easily much more limiting, thus the total amount of CO2 compared to much higher energy marine systems.

So poor plant growth basically leads to algae.
If not plants, then algae.

I have 3 otocinclus and one rubber lip pleco.( only gets about 5 inch max) Water changes before EI were 25 to 50 percent every week or 2. Now with EI its 50 percent one a week, every sunday. I have an Aquaclear 50 HOB and diy co2 that is diffused through a fluval plus 1 internal filter that also provides some circulation in the tank.

Smoking gun= DIY CO2.
CO2 is 95% of the algae issues I've addressed for folks over the last 15 years.
My self included.

I dont disinfect the plants before going in the tank and i really dont know how. My PH is 6.8 to 6.6 usually with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and about 20 to 30 ppms of nitrates from EI dosing. KH is 5 and GH is about 11. I have GDA and small green hairs and fuzz that grows all over the glass, GSA on the glass and also on some anubias nana leaves and some ozelot sword leaves, brown algae that is hard to remove all over the substrate(the otos dont remove it), I used to have diatoms but otos rid the tank of it, and recently have a couple of these brown balls of dust like or hair like build up and some of the stem plants. I have a few crypt wendtii red, an amazon sword that is small and wont grow, I big ozelot sword that just finished producing 6 babies, four of which made it and were planted in a smaller tank i have, i have two corkscrew val, a couple stems of rotala magenta, rotala indica ( which doesnt look good compared to my other harder rotala, go figure), and some rotala macrandra. I also have a couple small patches of dwarf hair grass that has some strands that browned but it also made some bright green new strands. About 12 stems of anacharis that i recently added to add some plant biomass to the tank to try to help, and a small stem of hornwort that will grow fast and a huge bush but i constantly trim it back down to one stem because it gets too big and it gathers lots of debris and some diatoms it appears but otos wont eat it on the hornwort. And i also have a small piece of driftwood that my anubias nana attached itself to.
Should i just massively clean the tank or blackout? I'm willing to accept i messed up an just remove all the plants and fish and gravel vac and scrub the tank. Then just add the fish and plants again and try again.

I don't know what the problem is. Should i just rebuild the whole tank and vacuum it ridiculously? That is biggest problem, the substrate. It has SOO much brown algae that the otos wont eat and too much organic matter and detritus.

I'd focus on growing plants, nutrients are the last 1/3 of the 3 things that grow plants, the first is light, followed by CO2...........

You can clean and kill algae easy enough, but if it comes right back, not much use for you.

EI just addresses nutrients, not light or CO2.
That's why folks fail with any dosing method some % of the time/a certain % of folks.

It's not just nutrients.
It's all 3 and CO2 is more complex than many assume.

EI will rule out nutrients easily.
Reduce the lighting will reduce the CO2 demand and nutrient demand as well.

Too low and you end up not having enough light however.

So low to moderate light + good stable CO2, good current and then...........good pruning, care, water changes, dosing etc

I'm not here to sell you anything also. LFS's want to sell NO3 remover, PO4 remover, RO systems, fish, etc.

That is what they do..........

Here's some other tanks:

reef tanks I've done

Marine plants:

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[jonny_ftm]

I, like many here, dose EI
I still dose the same when I moved from 3.6 wpg T5 to 1.8 wpg T5

My aquarium before EI:

And now, with EI, without restarting anything:

 

[jonny_ftm]

The echino, crypts, egeria, Hygrophila are all the same that you see in first pics. Only my Ludwigia Glandulosa was sacrified.

 

[Tom Barr]

Well, this suggest that EI had everything to do with the result, which is also, not the case. I've seen tanks like that as well using EI...............but they had lots of light, DIY CO2 and poor CO2 in general.............

It can go both ways, but for reasons independent of dosing or any type.

You need to take a more holistic approach when looking at things, add nutrients, keep them within some range that's good for plants, add CO2 well/correctly, add enough light but not too much etc.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[jonny_ftm]

In deed, there was no CO2 at that time but light was low. Then, pressurized CO2 was added too low with no results. Then CO2 was increased, no way. And finally started EI with no PO4, no way.
Then I increased light and began adding PO4 to obtain that result. I first thought it was light, but now I think PO4 helped a lot

But, there were many other factors: fish overload, over feeding, 20% water change, low plant biomass...

 

[PRSRocker3390]

I'm sorry, i think the ei method is great. I was just quoting what some guy told me. I think all your articles are genius Tom. What should i do? Should i do anything to the tank like blackout or clean extensively? I just want to get on track? I already have the lights mounted and raised and only on for about 8 hours. Should i reduce this more or should i downgrade the bulb from 65 watts to like a 55 or something? Thanks guys, i'm desperate to get the tank out of this condition.

 

[nipat]

In deed, there was no CO2 at that time but light was low. Then, pressurized CO2 was added too low with no results. Then CO2 was increased, no way. And finally started EI with no PO4, no way.
Then I increased light and began adding PO4 to obtain that result. I first thought it was light, but now I think PO4 helped a lot

But, there were many other factors: fish overload, over feeding, 20% water change, low plant biomass...

How long did it take before seeing the result?

 

[Gerryd]

Hi,

Well one of the issues you have is most likely your DIY c02. While your tank is small, DIY c02 is notorious for instability. Plants do not care for unstable c02 and/or nutrient levels.

Since c02 is a main nutrient, this will lead to other issues, regardless of your other fert dosing.

A blackout will help eliminate the algae that you have now, but you need to understand/repair WHY you get algae now or it will simply return.

I would NOT increase your light. If you can raise it a few inches but still retain a good spread of the light on the tank, that may help. You can always put it back if too little light is an issue.

Can you use a larger yeast bottle and have a second one ready to go when the first goes out? This will help alleviate some of the instability issues.

Try this for a week or two, with or without a blackout first:

1. Do what you can for the c02 to help ensure there is stable and sufficient amounts. You may well need to increase the c02 rate and/or enhance your distribution method.
2. Manually clean as much algae as possible.
3. Every other day,or daily if possible, do a 50% water change, and dose your ferts each time.
4. Trim all of the algae infested leaves. Be ruthless about it.
5. SLOWLY increase your c02 rate and watch your fish for heavy breathing, color change, hiding, etc. STOP if the fish are stressed in any way.
6. Look for the plants to 'pearl' or show small bubbles of 02 on the leaves. This is a good indicator that c02 is better.

I think some of the issue, is that the tank is still cycling a bit. The poor plant growth release nh4 which fuels algae..

You want to be able to see and rate the new growth. Is it good clean color, shape, no algae? Then you are getting somewhere.

If you remove ALL algae and it comes right back, then something is still wrong, and I would bet c02 or too much light where the c02 cannot keep up with plant demand.

I hope some of this helps.

 

[jonny_ftm]

Hi,
You have 3.2wpg, you could start decreasing the light with all what you were advised before. As you were advised, either put it heigher or switch to a

 

[jeff5614]

Concerning all the build up you have on the substrate, I would clean as much out as you can. I can't help but think an excessive amount of decaying matter is only going to contribute to instability in the tank. Times I've slacked on vacuuming or cleaning filters seems to be times I've noticed algae start creeping up on me.

 

[PRSRocker3390]

i cant seem to find light bulbs that are lower watts to fit my fixture. I have a coralife aqualight and it takes one 21" straight pin compact flourescent bulb. I only found a 55 watt bulb. Is there any site that sells lower watts but same size and type?

 

[jonny_ftm]

Then just raise it heigher. I didn't see you have fluorescent bulbs. You can't switch to less/more power without changing the whole electronics.

As you were advised, put your lights heigher if you can. Or, you can remove the reflectors

 

[PRSRocker3390]

i have my lights already mounted and raised up several inches.