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Chelated Iron Dosing

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by travis, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. travis

    travis Lifetime Members
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    I just got some of the Iron Chelate 10% from www.gregwatson.com and have been unable to find any sort of concentration levels for mixing it/dosing it. I'll readily admit that I have very little chemistry knowledge and was wondering if anyone might be able to give me some advice on its use? Thanks :)
     
  2. Wö£fëñxXx

    Wö£fëñxXx Prolific Poster

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    I mix 1Tbsp per 250ml H20 dose 1 to 2ml per 50gal 3x aweek, this is with dosing CSM+B and Flourite sub also containing iron, you could dose more or less based on your individual need's.
    Adds b e a u t y to them thar weed's.
     
  3. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    I like Wolfen's recommendations the best ...

    Also ... when the new Fertilator on APC comes out, it is supposed to have dosing instructions on it as well ...

    Here's the "catch" ... most or many of us dose based upon volume of a dry ingredient rather than the more accurate method of using weight ...

    For most dry ingredients, this works just fine ...

    However, with the Iron Chelate, the powder is very compactible ... and thus, volume is not very accurate ... if I press a lot of dry Iron Chelate into a tsp ... I can get quite a bit more of it in there than if I loosely fill it up ... the weight difference can be up to 40% higher ... that's a significant variable ...

    Now in most cases, simple instructions like those from Wolfen are going to be "close" enough ... accruate enough ... practical enough ... usefull enough ... that you can actually use them ... and have them work well ...

    But ... for those that like to nitpick, there quite a bit of room to pick a nit ... because I can not tell you accurately how many ppm that solution is going to create based upon how "much" of the Iron Chelate you add ....

    Greg
     
  4. travis

    travis Lifetime Members
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    I really wanted to get a ballpark idea of how concentrated it was to avoid overdosing. I usually just eyeball my more iron-sensitive plants when dosing, so a rough idea will work just fine. Thanks guys :)
     
  5. fishface

    fishface Guest

    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    so then instead of Tbsp's does anyone have a measurement in gram's for more accuracy?
     
  6. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Here is the rough math ...

    We want to raise the amount of iron 1 ppm in 1 gallon of water.
    1ppm = 1mg/L.
    1 gallon = 3.785L.

    Therefore for 1 gallon, we need 3.785 mg of iron to achieve 1ppm
    (3.785mg/3.785L). The chelate is 10% iron so: 3.785mg/0.10 = 37.85mg.
    This means we need 0.03785g of this 10% iron chelate to raise the Fe
    concentration 1ppm in 1 gallon of water. This is for dry dosing only. An
    equation to use for any water volume and any Fe ppm increase is: grams =
    g*r*0.03785

    g = water volume in gallons (typically multiplying tank volume by 0.85
    give us the water volume)
    r = raise of iron in ppm
     
  7. Gill Man

    Gill Man Prolific Poster

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    A quick question for Greg, I was wondering why your product uses sequestrene (probably sequestrene 330) as opposed to EDTA? I've read that (for soils at least), both work in slightly acidic and slightly alkaline pH. I keep my pH at 6.6, is this still considered slight acidic or should I bring it up a tad? Thanks!

    Gil
     
  8. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    The label says "performs best where the pH is 6.0-7.5" ... I would not personally consider 6.0 to be slightly acidic ... so I would say drop that PH, boost your CO2 as high as the charts say you can !!!!

    When I try to source supplies ... I look for affordability and reliability ... of course that's assuming that the question of availability has is an issue.

    For most of us, cost and availability are critical issues as we search for DIY alternatives ...

    I quote/unquote "sell" right out of my own supply ... I sell what I use in my own aquariums ... (the only exception to that is that a couple friends nagged me into picking up some calcium carbonate (dolomitic) and Calcium Chloride) ...

    There are others who can talk about scientific minutia ... I can only tell you how it works in my own aquariums ... and right now I keep my PH at about 6.4 to 6.5 using CO2 ... now whether there is a difference between the effect of carbonic acids and acids you might find naturally occuring in various soils, I don't know ... I also can not *personally* tell you what the differences are between gluconate forms of Iron, and all of the various different chelated forms of Iron ...

    I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you ... but I am quite sure that we are at least fine on the "works best" all the way down to 6.0 ... whether its effectiveness might start to drop off below that, I have no idea ... but I know my fish would start to drop off below 6.0 !!!
     
  9. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    So, I guess my using "pinches" and "smidgeons" of this dry fert and that, is
    not all that accurate :eek: Well, I'm fresh-out of a pharmaceutical balance to
    measure grams, milligrams :( As a good pharm balance can run into some
    serious money (anything over $50 to me is serious :D ) I'm hoping for a more
    homespun approach to measurements. Will the new and improved fertilator
    speak in the language of 1/2 tsp, 1tbsp, etc, or in grams and milligrams? I'm
    thinking the latter, justifiably, since some dry substances weigh more by volume than others.

    Greg, hardy-under-helmet, and an epic guy for sure: will you take it upon
    yourself to factor a grams/milligrams per volume of each of your dry ferts?
    Such as 1 smidgeon of KNO3 is equal to x mgs--thank you so much if
    you will. :)

    Bill
     
  10. ecupino

    ecupino Junior Poster

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Measure one litter of distilled water and weigh 10 milligrams of iron chelate on a weigh scale. We dont know how much iron is in 10 grams of Greggs powder Use you solution and measure it with Lamotte iron test kit. That should give you your ppm. When you find out please let me know
     
  11. m lemay

    m lemay Prolific Poster

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Heres what greg wrote on this:Here's the "catch" ... most or many of us dose based upon volume of a dry ingredient rather than the more accurate method of using weight ...

    For most dry ingredients, this works just fine ...

    However, with the Iron Chelate, the powder is very compactible ... and thus, volume is not very accurate ... if I press a lot of dry Iron Chelate into a tsp ... I can get quite a bit more of it in there than if I loosely fill it up ... the weight difference can be up to 40% higher ... that's a significant variable ...
     
  12. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Yep, the Iron Keelate is the rub: how to weigh the stuff for accuracy. I could
    take some on base at Redstone Arsenal and have one of the pharm techs
    measure it for me....yeah, that's reality :D I don't think being a pharm tech
    for 17 years in the navy is going to cut any slack with the Army guys :eek:

    Guess I will be shopping around on ebay for a balance. But first, I have to
    order the stuff from Greg, and I think I'll get another set of those lovely little
    spoons :D

    Bill
     
  13. Ian H

    Ian H Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    As a matter of interest (to me at least) If the compound is 10% chelated Fe, what is the other 90% composed of?

    Ian
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    ETDA, Zn, Mn, Cu, Mo, B mainly

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. Laith

    Laith Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    One doesn't need to spend hundreds of $$ to get a scale.

    I bought a small simple digital scale that measures in tenths of grams up to 250g for around 35$.

    First thing I did when I got it was realize that I had been underdosing almost all my ferts when using the "published" gram/tsp/tbsp equivalents.

    Not that it was a huge difference but I'm more comfortable knowing more precisely what the mg/l dosages I'm doing are! :)
     
  16. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Laith,
    I was wondering if 1/10th gram is sensitive enough for dosing a 10 gallon
    tank with dry ferts (KNO3, KH2PO4). Maybe it's close enough that if you
    had to make a smaller portion you could make a close approximation, visually.

    Do you know the brand of this scale? Much appreciated. :)

    Bill Ruyle
     
  17. Laith

    Laith Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Bill,

    It was from this place (through ebay UK): http://www.ukscales.com/ukshop/default.php

    And it looks like they've even gone down in price.

    It's in the UK but I'm sure you can get similar scales in the US. If not, maybe they ship to the US...

    1/10th of a gram is sensitive enough for almost any size tank (except for maybe a 1 gallon...).
     
  18. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Chelated Iron Dosing

    Laith, thanks much for the hookup--I'll be investigating!

    Regards,

    Bill Ruyle
     
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