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Check my dosing routine

Discussion in 'Estimative Index' started by priv_sim, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    Hello,

    I have finally decided to start EI dosing for my 60L (16G) aquarium, but I would like that you guys check my dosing routine (if my understanding and calculations are correct).

    So my tank:
    16G or 60L
    2x 15w lamps so its approx 1.8w/G
    Pressured CO2 system (though CO2 level is quite low - 9ppm, increased it few mins ago)
    Quite a lot of plants (3 anubias, 1 anubias nana, 2 Pogostemon helferi, 3 some kind stems, 3 something like crypts, and 6 other plants which names I don't know also :D)
    No fishes yet, though I am planing to buy ~6 barbus and 1 fish like SAE but not it, because he is quite aggressive and grows quite big. BTW I need suggestions about this point, how many fishes would be optimal choice?

    And the dosing part:
    I made 2 bottles with macro elements.
    1st bottle contains 400ml of tap water and 7 tsp of KNO3
    2nd bottle - 400ml water, 2tsp KH2PO4
    I'm dosing 3 times per week. Every time I put 10ml of each liquid.
    + 1 time per week some micro elements (Sera Florena), which I got from a local pet store
    and ofc 50% water change.

    So am I doing it correctly?
    Any comments are welcome,
    Thanks!

    P.S. Sorry for my language mistakes, English is not my native language.
     
  2. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    No comments?

    Anyway I'm planing to add Easy Life - ProFito into my plants diet. People say its like Excel just with lower concentration and I can't get Excel in my country :)
    So is it a good choice, wont there be too much ferts?
    Waiting for your comments,
    Thank you.
     
  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I totally recommend first identifying your plants :) Here is a link that may help:

    Tropica

    Navigate to the 'plant' tab.

    You may not get an instant reply as folks want to give a good response, not just fire off an opinion.

    I also do not think you have 'a lot' of plants. Can you send a pic?

    Ok, I am unsure about your mixing dosage as I just add the dry ferts to a bit of water each time and then add directly to the tank. I do not premix and store.

    You should add your micros 3x per week as well.

    How do you guage your c02 level? Optimally we shoot for somewhere around 30-40 ppm. Do you use a drop checker? While these are not as accurate as a C02 meter, they can give you an idea at least.

    http://www.barrreport.com/articles/2661-drop-checkers-co2-indicators-why-how.html?highlight=test+kits

    C02 is the MOST important plant nutrient and insufficient c02 will cause secondary deficiencies in your plants.

    What do you mean by 'ofc water change'? A 50% weekly water change should be done as follows as an example:

    Mon-wed-fri - dose macros. 50% water change on Monday to reset, then dose.
    Tue-thurs-sat dose micros
    Sun - do nothing and enjoy the tank

    Here is a link to the EI article that has sample dosings:

    http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2819-ei-light-those-less-techy-folks.html

    An example for a 40-60 gal:

    40-60 Gallon Aquariums
    +/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
    +/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
    +/- 3/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
    +/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
    50% weekly water change

    I am not familiar with the last product you mention. I use Tropica plant nutrition for micro dosing which is expensive but may be available where you are.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    I didn't catch how you are measuring your CO2?? Now you will need to adjust this slowly and watch carefully. You will have better luck adjusting this slowly over time that large single adjustments.

    400/56 = 7 ml 3x week = 1/8 tsp 3x week

    400/64 = 6.25 ml 3x week = 1/32 tsp 3x week

    I'd say you are close on the macs.

    Not sure of the concentration of your mics mix but it appears lean.


    10- 20 Gallon Aquariums
    +/- 1/8 tsp KNO3 (N) 3x a week
    +/- 1/32 tsp KH2PO4 (P) 3x a week
    +/- 1/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
    +/- 1/32 tsp (2ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
    50% weekly water change

    You are somewhere between the above recommended ratio and what Gerry suggested. This is a good starting point.

     
  5. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    Hey Gerryd,

    Wasn't able to get camera so I made picture with MS paint:
    [​IMG]

    I am not sure about Lilaeopsis and those dark green spots are something like Lilaeopsis about 20cm tall (name starts with "P" couldn't find exact in Tropica).

    About my dosage: every 1ml of KNO3 liquid gives 1ppm of Nitrate and every 1ml of KH2PO4 liquid gives 0.28 ppm of Phosphate. So its 30ppm of Nitrate and 8.4ppm of Phosphate weekly. (according to Chuck's calculator)

    I gauge my CO2 by checking my ph and kh + Chuck's calculator.
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Are you using a known 4 or 5 kh solution when you use the chart? If not, it will not work. Please read the link on drop checkers I gave you and go from there.

    Unless you have a c02 meter, it is all rough guesses.

    c02 is the main culprit for poor plant growth and algae issues.
     
  7. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    by checking ph and kh than calculating with Chuck's calculator

    What is GH Booster?

    And about Easy Life - ProFito. Should I use it?

    Thanks for comments :)
     
  8. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    I check kh with Sera kh test.
    Ok I'll read that link
     
  9. aaronnorth

    aaronnorth Prolific Poster

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    The ph/ kh method of testing CO2 is innacurate, as it relys on carbonic acids being the only acid in the water, however other acids such as humic acids ar in, and these affect the reading
     
  10. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    So I need to fill drop checker with 4 dKh water and add some reagent to make it blue? I will try that.
     
  11. keymaker

    keymaker Lifetime Charter Member
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    I entered your data in my Excel Calculator and even with 0 ppm NO3 and 0 ppm K in your tap water the nutrients concentration in your tank falls well above the EI range. While these values are OK for all the fish, I think it is safe to decrease the values to just hit the higher values of the EI range.

    To me this means you are adding too much K, NO3, and PO4 with the 10 ml-s. Also, you do not mention adding Magnesium Suplhate. Any reason to that?

    Also, unfortunately we do not know how much you add by the Sera Florena trace elements mix. These commercial products do not proud themselves by letting us know what they sell... :( Make sure you heavily overdose their recommendation. Most factory amounts are too low.

    I uploaded the excel file with your data here. (Download with confidence - no viruses. I made it under Mac OSX. ;) )

    [​IMG]

    Based on this calculation, if both NO3 and K in your tap is 0 ppm, I would add 8ml KNO3 and 3ml KH2PO4 from the same solutions and would complement the whole thing with adding 10ml from a solution made up with 400ml water and 2 teaspoons of K2SO4.

    But that's just me, overdosing like you do is of no danger whatsoever, so I'm not implying you should do that. You can always decrease slowly the values over a couple of weeks and watch for plant response.
     
  12. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    Hey keymaker,

    Thanks for sharing your calculator and for checking my dosage.

    I didn't add K2SO4 because in some guides it wasn't mentioned and I didn't understand his role in fertilizing, but now I think it's main K source for aquarium, am I right?

    What about Magnesium Sulphate is this chemical critical for aquarium?

    Is it possible to mix all chemicals in 1 bottle?
     
  13. keymaker

    keymaker Lifetime Charter Member
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    K2SO4 is basically adding Potassium (K) to your tank without increasing PO4 or NO3 concentration through adding Potassium Phosphate or Potassium Nitrate.

    As you can see on the right column of the chart I posted earlier (in the Nutrient Percentages Calculation section) Potassium can be added from these three separate sources KNO3, KH2PO and K2SO4, so one can not really say one is more "main" than the other. It can simply be added through any or all of these.

    Epsom Salts (MgSO4 7H2O) is used to correct Magnesium deficiency in your tank. The EI method mentions it under the "Have Hard Water?" section as it is used to increase GH for those folk who have soft water. This might or might not be your case.

    Some guys have successfully mixed all macro (and micro!) elements together in one mix. Check out James' DIY TPN+ description page for that. If you decide to do that, and you want to add your micro mix, you should really have good chelates in your micro mix and use some stabilizers such Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate. I would suggest you keep your liquid ferts separately at the beginning to be able to adjust the different dosages separately. You will always have time to create your own all-in-one mix later after you have good results with your dosing regime.
     
  14. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    According to other people my tap water is hard, so i guess I don't need it :)

    Going to switch to your offered dosage, just made K2SO4 mix. Thanks for help!
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Just bcuase you have hard water, does not mean you do not need any other parts of GH, example, GH is both Ca and Mg, typically, folks often still need Mg............even if they have hard high GH tap............

    So add Mg or test for it etc, call the water company etc.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  16. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    I just found out about Easy Life - ProFito concentration:
    The product contains 17 elements :
    Fe(2+) : 1.200 ppm ; K : 7.000 ppm ; Mg : 900 ppm ; Mn : 400 ppm ; I : 200 ppm ; B : 80 ppm ; Cu, Mo, Zn, Li : 20 ppm ; Ni, Co, Al, Sn, F : 10 ppm
    V, Se : 5 ppm

    So should I use it as micro elements fertilizer? And how much should I dose (producer suggest 10ml per 100L weekly)?

    This company also offers Iron fertilizer (every 10ml per 100L increases Fe by 0.5ppm)
     
  17. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    The problem with this fertilizer is that it has quite high K ppm. Right now I am thinking to dose 15ml weekly (5ml x 3 times). This will increase K ppm by 1,75 and I get 23 ppm from macros. And also I am thinking to add Fe fertilizer, something like 12 ml per week and in the end of the week I will get 1.3ppm.
    So to conclude, in the end of the week i get:
    24 ppm Nitrate
    2.6 ppm Phosphate
    24.75 ppm K
    1.3 ppm Fe
    0.2 ppm Mg
    and other micros are 0.1ppm and less.

    What do you think about these rates?
     
  18. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    Got cloudy water after dosing iron fertilizer... Too high level of phosphates, because I have increased my Fe level by ~0.4 ppm?
     
  19. keymaker

    keymaker Lifetime Charter Member
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    I wonder what kind of chelate does Easy Life use. It might well release the iron too easily thus creating precipitation. Phosphates do react with iron but decreasing their level is not the solution. The solution is finding a good chelated micro. HEDDTA chelates found in Tropica Plant Nutrition or the one sold by Peter Haack could be one solution.
     
  20. priv_sim

    priv_sim Junior Poster

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    Update:
    Increased plants biomass (not much space left to add more plants)
    Added fishes (3 otocinclus, 5 cardinal tetras, 5 rhodostomus, 1 colisa lalia red)
    Decreased light period to 8 hours
    Replanted crypts and cleaned substrate under them
    Still trying to adjust co2 flow, but now its off at night

    To do list:
    Find better iron ferts, because I get cloudy water
    Get Gh booster

    Not sure if I managed to defeat BGA, because this morning my tank looked like someone has removed most of the BGA, but at the end of the day it grew back at same spots. Going to change filter sponges during next water change, maybe this will help...

    Got a bit of thread algae on one of the plants, which doesn't want to start grow.
     
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