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Changing to EI numbers check

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by rcalzadilla, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom:
    I have decided to change over to EI dosing and reducing my CO2 level since the fish are not happy and eating poorly. Also have string algae, diatoms, etc.
    Have installed a UV help with diatom, greem water and clarity.

    This is what I have been doing up to now and how it compares to my new EI dosing:

    Dosing before new target:
    KNO3..........4.65g 3x week
    KH2PO4...... 0.5g 3x week
    K2SO4.........6.6g 3x week
    Plantex CSM+B ..................5g 3x week

    PH........... 6.4 ---- 6.6 (have been trying to get it to 6.6 but bubble rate
    (is a little elusive. Problem with Ideal valve?)
    KH...........71.6 (increased with baking soda from my local water of 53.7)
    CO2 ....... 30ppm (from CO2 table)

    Fish are not happy and not eating well. There is growth in the great majority of plants.
    -----------------o--------------------o---------------------o----------

    Estimative Index dose for my tank:
    KNO3......7.8 g 3x wk
    KH2PO4.. 2.8 g 3x wk
    Plantex... 1.5 g 3x wk
    PH....think I should go to 6.8 for a CO2 of 19ppm. Looking to improve fish condition.
    _________________
     
  2. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Measuring CO2 by measuring the tank water KH and pH is rarely accurate. There are almost always other substances in our tank water that affect KH and pH other than carbonates and CO2. The table relating ppm of COw to KH and pH assumes no other such substances in the water. From what I have seen, the table generally, if not always gives you a much higher ppm than actually exists in the tank. If you use a drop checker you will come a lot closer to knowing how much CO2 is in the water.

    Do you use a dechlorinator when you add water to the tank? Do you shut off the CO2 at night?
     
  3. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I should be receiving my Drop Checker soon. Ordered after reading how and why it works.

    I do use dechlorinator and dose it generously. But I am putting tap water right into the tank.
    I do turn off CO2 injection with lights-off at night.

    I am still puzzled as to why the fish are not doing well. They have not recovered since using an overdose of Excel and dosing Epson Salt and had some fish die. Assumed one of these was the culprit. But that was back in October 28th !

    Since fert dosing has been constant, temp ok, no ammonia, what else but CO2 to suspect?

    raul
     
  4. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom:
    I have decided to change over to EI dosing and reducing my CO2 level since the fish are not happy and eating poorly. Also have string algae, diatoms, etc.
    Have installed a UV help with diatom, greem water and clarity.

    This is what I have been doing up to now and how it compares to my new EI dosing:

    Dosing before new target:
    KNO3..........4.65g 3x week
    KH2PO4...... 0.5g 3x week
    K2SO4.........6.6g 3x week
    Plantex CSM+B ..................5g 3x week

    PH........... 6.4 ---- 6.6 (have been trying to get it to 6.6 but bubble rate
    (is a little elusive. Problem with Ideal valve?)
    KH...........71.6 (increased with baking soda from my local water of 53.7)
    CO2 ....... 30ppm (from CO2 table)

    Fish are not happy and not eating well. There is growth in the great majority of plants.
    -----------------o--------------------o---------------------o----------

    Estimative Index dose for my tank:

    KNO3......7.8 g 3x wk
    KH2PO4.. 2.8 g 3x wk
    Plantex... 1.5 g 3x wk
    PH....think I should go to 6.8 for a CO2 of 19ppm. Looking to improve fish condition.

    PS: Today, 5pm. New slime algae in addition to diatoms, hair and Oedogonium!!

    Help!!!
     
  5. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    What is the tank size and light wattage? That will help us to figure out the right fertilizer dosage.
     
  6. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    My tank is 125 gal/ about 100 gal net.
    Power Compacts 384 watts
    Photo period 12 hrs
    Injected CO2, off at night.
    PH 6.8 (Fish are very much improved and eating)

    Thanks for the interest.

    raul
     
  7. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Front.JPG
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    That's a lot of light, try 9 hours and use only 1 bank of lights for 9 hours and the other one for 4 hours midday if possible, otherwise 9 hours.

    I think you'll need to really focus on CO2 (watch and observe the plants closely and the fish) more than anything here.
    Some more plant biomass would help also.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Thanks for the reply.

    This morning my Saggitarias have more transparent leaves.

    Will reduce to 9 hrs.
     
  10. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Your Rx is working

    Five days ago I began your light regimen suggestion.
    It's working and I really appreciate it.
    Diatoms are a little more noticeable but I am happy with this trade off.
    I have a 25W UV in my 125g which gives me the desired clearer water.

    Question:
    Dwarf Saggitaria are very light green and veins are highly visible but still multiplying.
    Is it wise to increase dose from present 1.25grams 3x wk or waiting longer the prudent thing?
     
  11. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom:
    It has been 6 days since lowering my light as per quoted above: 9 hrs half lights, plus 4 hrs. at noon time.
    It has controlled algae very much but my plants are being affected:
    Dwarf Saggitaria: Lime green leafs and vein clearly showing, some dying.
    Dwarf Lilly : Has stopped growing but was very prolific before.
    Kleiner Bar Sword: Some leafs becoming transparent and developing holes.
    Water Sprite: Slowed growth considerably. Maybe stopped growing?
    There are other plants adversely affected.
    Comments, please.
    tks
    raul
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, you need to focus on plant growth, that's plenty of light!
    So what you are seeing is not due to low light.........perhaps some transition........but plants rarely if ever get holes, poor unhealthy leaves etc........

    If the light is only on one side of the tank, you need better spread.
    So 4 hours for the frotn bank and 5-6 for the rear can help, with little.no over lap for all of them.

    Water changes, EI dosing, Add some excel for now......good CO2.
    That's about all.

    It takes a few days for the plants to bounce back.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Thanks so much Tom!

    Think I'm beginning to understand.

    raul
     
  14. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Since making the above changes my tank has really improved. Greatly reduced algae ( except for diatoms which are reduced but not gone) much improved fish behavior, all plants are growing less rapidly but healthy.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you! Now I am happy to look at my tank and fish!

    One plant not doing well and that is Dwarf Sagittaria, which doesn't look healthy and is very light green. What can they be missing?
    My EI dosing: KNO3--7.8g, KH2PO4--2.8g, Plantex CSM--1.25g, all 3X week.
    PH targeting for 6.6 PH.
    KH 3dKH.

    Comments?
    raul
     
  15. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Do I need to adjust EI dosing?

    125gal/100gal net
    For the last 15 days, per your advise:

    Lights: 1.92/wpg for 8 hrs (alternating front and back light banks with 10min. overlap)
    Dosing: KNO3==== 7.8g 3X week
    KH2PO4 == 2.8g 3X week
    Plantex=== 1.25g 3X week
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Present levels:

    PH =6.6
    KH=53.7
    CO2 Pressurized

    Tested levels: NO3=======50ppm
    Phosphate==1.0ppm

    Plants not doing well: Cryptocoryne Lucens (looks like they are dying)
    Dwarf Sagittaria (yellowish new growth, weak)

    Very little or no algae!

    May I increase Plantex CSM, if so, how much ( to help Sagitt. and Cryps)?
    May I increase overlapping lights (3.84/wpg) by one hour or extend the 1.92/wpg to 9-10 hrs?

    tks
    raul
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Yes, you could try increasing the Traces and the light overlap a bit.
    Start with 25% more traces, and 1 hour over lap.
    Increase after 2 weeks of good observations.
    Stop adding if no improvement is seen and revert back to the previous dosing.

    Focus on CO2 the most.

    Assuming the test kit is correct, you can add a bit less NO3, and more PO4.
    You can also do more than 50% water changes also.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  17. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Tom:
    Again, thank you very much!
    raul
     

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