Cerges Reactor and NW combination

[Gerryd]

Hey all,

I copied some posts from a thread by gomgom on a large tank build that talk about cerges reactors in line between a NW pump for c02 and the main sump pump for disttibution...

Here is Tom's post that started the hijack

The cerges style water filter modifications work well and you can get large water filters with clear housing with 25mm PVC in/out. I would place these in the sump and use a pair of them.
They would be fed by 2 large Needle wheel powerheads, eg, maybe 2000-3000 liter hour each.
The reactors will catch the mist and larger bubbles and help them to dissolve better.

This is important because on larger tanks, the clarity is a huge issue.

They make a common clear water filter housing like this:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/p...-Housing-.html

Gerry, this is for you too.

You need to add a PCV tube going about 18 inches down the middle to help direct the water from inlets/outlets.

Typically there is a cartridge filter in these units, but if you use them simply as place to increase the dwell time for CO2, then you just need a PVC tube attached and glued to the middle return inside the housing.
Also, these size filters are great for water changes and to remove Chlorine etc from house tap water.
Just use high grade carbon blocks and replace every 3-4 months.

You do not need quite that much flow from the CO2 system, since the outflow from that will be fed back into the suction side of the return pump, which will do the mixing for the CO2 in the aquarium.

A second post from Tom:

I think the reactor's dwell time allows for more of the gas to dissolve and the larger bubbles are caught if you use a reactor post NW power head. Most of the reactor designs I use, have been this 2 step approach.

 

[Gerryd]

Response from Gerry:

I was thinking 2 of these...1 for a reactor and then the second would have the carbon filter....

http://www.omnifilters.com/u25_filter.htm

 

[Gerryd]

Post from Henry:

Hmmm. I'm thinking of doing a Cerges reactor for my 210. So fed by a needle wheel and return to the sump by the return pipe..

What gph do you recommend ? Does the size of the canister make a diff? Using a std di filter housing or a double size? Also how bout putting a pot scrubber or two inside the reactor to help break up the water?

Thanks.


Henry tomassini
www.theplantedaquariumstore.com
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tom Barr]

Response from Gerry:

I was thinking 2 of these...1 for a reactor and then the second would have the carbon filter....

http://www.omnifilters.com/u25_filter.htm

That would be a great way to pre filter the tap water coming in to the tank for the refilling.

Or if you wanted some temp Carbon filtering to remove something etc. Or you could slap a 20-10-5 micron(no need to go lower than a 5) into one of them and polish the water up good after cleaning or pre photo shoot.

 

[Gerryd]

That would be a great way to pre filter the tap water coming in to the tank for the refilling.

Or if you wanted some temp Carbon filtering to remove something etc. Or you could slap a 20-10-5 micron(no need to go lower than a 5) into one of them and polish the water up good after cleaning or pre photo shoot.

Tom,

Because I refill from the top via flex hose the carbon prefilter MUST be installed inline with the tap. Is this what you meant?

I ws thinking the one would be a reactor and the second would be inline somewhere on one of the two main sump outlets back to tank. This would serve as a chem or polishing filter as needed. I could swap out a filter bag of purigen or activated carbon or a micron cartridge as needed. Or left empty most of the time. Good ideas..

Do you suggest injecting c02 directly to the reactor AS WELL as the feed from the NW? Or is this overkill?

These do seem simple to make. Can't wait to build one and try it this weekend!



Thanks!

 

[ua hua]

This is basically the way I'm running my CO2 now minus the Cerges reactor. I have a mag drive7 with needle wheel running through my Aquamedic 1000. The bleed valve to my reactor is hooked up into the venturi on the needle wheel pump so any false gas buildup from the reactor goes straight to the venturi in the needle wheel pump and is chopped up again by the needle wheel pump and the return from the reactor goes back into my sump where it is directed at the inlet of another mag drive 7 which is my return pump. I still get a few micro bubbles in my tank which doesn't bother me near as much as when the needle wheel pump was being fed directly into the tank but I can tolerate them. I have plans this winter to build a clear reactor whether it be using clear pvc or using a clear filter housing similar to the ones you linked. I don't think I will be putting anything in the reactor like bioballs or anything because that is the one thing that I don't like about the Aquamedic reactor is the flow you lose with the bioballs and they don't take long to accumulate junk. I don't really like the whole term reactor anyway as there is no special reaction going on in these that can't be accomplished simply by giving the CO2 more contact time with the water, so the term I will use and have heard Tom use before is bubble collector as that will be its purpose, to simply collect the finer CO2 mist and allow it longer contact time before it goes into the tank. I'm not sure on the size of housing I will use yet but it will be the largest size I can fit under my cabinet and still be able to access. I have looked at several that they have available at Bulk Reef Supply and they have just about every size you can imagine. Between building this new CO2 regulator and this bubble collector I should have plenty to keep me occupied during the cold winter months.

 

[Tom Barr]

Gerry, If you still refill from the Kitchen, then put this sucker under the sink.

You can make a simple bypass for doing dishes etc. Use the filter for drinking and cooking water, and then tank refills.

Then use the other one as a reactor. Note: you can still use the CO2 reactor as a polishing filter and run at night etc.
Just switch the cartridge..............

I have several tanks so I'll be using a pair of these along with a UV mounted to a small light duty hand truck with 2 water changer U shaped PVC hooks and a big old pump.

 

[Gerryd]

Gerry, If you still refill from the Kitchen, then put this sucker under the sink.

You can make a simple bypass for doing dishes etc. Use the filter for drinking and cooking water, and then tank refills.

Then use the other one as a reactor. Note: you can still use the CO2 reactor as a polishing filter and run at night etc.
Just switch the cartridge..............

I have several tanks so I'll be using a pair of these along with a UV mounted to a small light duty hand truck with 2 water changer U shaped PVC hooks and a big old pump.

Tom,

Yes, I connect a hose to the tap for refilling post w/c... I will have a large unit installed for this purpose.

For the reactor how about if I zip tie a carbon pad around the standpipe? This would eliminate me having to swap out the cartridge on a daily basis. I might still add a second inline as I said for extra chem filtration as needed. At worst will simply provide more dwell time during c02 ON periods.

 

[Tom Barr]

You can simply toss a bag in the reactor, but you really do not need AC.

Temp type thing only, better to just add to the sump somewhere.

Easy in/out that way.

Mech filtration? Then you have switch them out.

 

[jerrybforl]

Gerry I have one of these stored away. I might use it on my 100 gallon instead of the inline diffuser. With my better DIY plumbing skills, I think that I can do this with little issue.

I'm curious as to the carbon side your are talking about. Tom you mentioned carbon blocks. What exactly are you talking about?

Gerry I also have a whole build that I have saved on one of these. If you want me to send it to you, let me know.

 

[Htomassini]

So this is getting me to think......

I could use my inline diffuser as my co2 injection source and have it Feed to the reactor to try to mitigate the bubbles. Would a nw pump be better?

Diagram:

Prefilter sponge
Inline diffuser
Nw pump
Reactor
Back to sump

Currently I use I use the inline diffuser in the sum with a rio 600 and I see the co2 in the tank due to the mist/ micro bubbles but I cannot drop the ph beyond 0.3

I don't want to go crazy with co2 as my discus don't like it but I need more co2 in there withouth the hazy look..



Henry tomassini
www.theplantedaquariumstore.com
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tom Barr]

It would be better than nothing (a diffuser).

 

[Gerryd]

Hey all,

Well for my first attempt I tried to go local to Home Depot and Lowes....

No luck at HD as they had only one model and the head underside had a star pattern of sorts and I could not get a standpipe of any sort on it...

So, off to Lowes where I purchased this unit:

http://www.filtersfast.com/P-Whirlp...t-Filter.asp?gclid=CMWA-vqe-LMCFQGFnQodvSkASw

It does NOT have a release valve but this is just a quick experiment. I will use brass 3/4 MPT-5/8 barb fittings for the hose connections. Of course they had only ONE such fitting So off to find another tomorro but I did puchase 3 fittings that would do the same, but would prefer the single connection. The other thing was that the cpvc I need is 1". However this only came in 10' lengths which will NOT fit in my car....So, will buy it tomorrow but bring my pvc cutter and simply make 3 smaller sections...

It does have a clear housing and I should be able to get it up and running tomorrow. I will post some pics of the 'build' and then it working (hopefully). I filled my 2 10lb c02 tanks today. Came home and found the 5lb that is hooked up was....empty lol

Well, more to come tomorrow. If this works, I will buy a larger filter and do the same...

I will be watching fish CLOSELY the next few days as this may have a big impact on c02 dissolution and thus fish stress.

 

[Tom Barr]

You need those larger ones I think, these 9 and 3/4"s are easy to find, but the larger ones are much better for higher flow rates.

Get the clear 20" x 4.5" dia.

 

[Gerryd]

You need those larger ones I think, these 9 and 3/4"s are easy to find, but the larger ones are much better for higher flow rates.

Get the clear 20" x 4.5" dia.

Tom, will do but the flow from the Rio 1k with a true NW is not that high.....I checked last night and there is NO need for a high flow rate unit perhaps...

I will try this one today and see how it works. I will need to web order a larger one from the link you provided....

This is just to see how it works and if it makes any observable difference on this smaller scale unit.

Is worth the $35 it cost for the experiment and the experience...

 

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

Well, my prototype is up and running I gave it a quick test with c02 on and the flow seems normal from the NW pump. I can see the c02 mist/bubbles come out of the standpipe and into the unit and then GENTLY float up and out. I can see where too much flow would send it on it's way too quickly.This is where the larger units come into play with more area...The output from the 'reactor' seems less misty than right from the pump but will be able to tell better when lights are on

I could NOT find another 3/4-5/8 fitting so used my 3 part combo to do the same
HD had NO 1" cpvc so back out to Lowes. I cut the 10' into 3 sections to carry home.

I used zip ties on the hose connections as the flow is not that high. I zip tied the unit to the stand for now to ensure no cats knock it over either...Ugly but effective while I plan out the permanent routing/plumbing...

The biggest thing:

I had to use the OUTLET port on the unit for the INPUT and visa versa....the way this unit works (unless the head is mislabeled) is that the input water flows into the unit outside of the filter cartridge. It then flows from INSIDE the cartridge back out. So, now the flow goes into the OUT, down the standpipe, and then out the IN LOL Running it the normal way, the inlet water sprayed into the unit and never filled it with water either...Once swapped it worked as expected.

So, keep an eye on this based on the unit you buy!

Seems to work fine though and will now guage the effectiveness while I build out a bigger unit perhaps.

Let's see where this goes...I will post some pics later but nothing really to see..Is quiet at least I think at least it will be a help. I used 3' of tubing into and out of the unit, so now have another 6' of area for longer c02 dwell time.

 

[ua hua]

Here is a good place to buy the larger size housings.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reverse-osmosis-canisters.html

 

[jerrybforl]

Very cool Gerry now post some pics and vid lol...

 

[Gerryd]

Hey JJ,

No worries, it will happen...

So......................after 2 full hours of the unit 'live' and lights at the max intensity (50%) and viewing from various POV it seems that the visible c02 mist/bubbles are VASTLY reduced. I usually can see the c02 mist pouring from the outlets and I do NOT see the same now as before. I will disconnect the outlet from the unit later and revert for a few minutes and see if there is a real difference, but looks good so far. Clarity end to end is much better due to reduced c02 mist and is more comparable to c02 off periods.

I can tell c02 is on but others may not notice as much...JJ will have to say when he gets here....

Fish do not seem any different behaviour or activitiy wise...they are looking to get fed. but will not go far at all today/tomorrow while I guage the new config. I am concerned about later in the day when c02 has had a chance to build up....

But, for the $ and time invested, it seems at LEAST to improve the water clarity. That in itself is a big win.

I will also compare pearling and other signs throughout the day..

I can see where a larger unit could be better. I am thinking of using a sponge or similar on the bottom of the standpipe to help slow the upward flow out of the unit...hmmmmmmm

Fun and interesting stuff. I will take the clarity improvement alone if nothing else occurs...

Later.

 

[Gerryd]

Hey all,

So far so good 5 hours into the c02 period...I disconnected the new unit and reverted to the prev config for a minute or two. The mist POURED out of the outlets as I was used to seeing. Once the unit was back inline, the mist was GONE....

Pearling seems normal for my tank at this time of day...

NO fish stress that I can see. Seems to work for clarity for sure. Does this mean more c02 for plants since it is dissolved better, at least by eye?

Later.