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Can too much CO2 be bad?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by rajkm, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    Befor my CO2 kicks in my ph is around 6.6 - 6.7.


    I drop my PH close to 5.4 - 5.45.


    The KH of my water is somewhere between 1-2.


    According to the PH/KH table I should be having insane amount of CO2.


    If I follow the 1PH drop, I am beyond that too.


    My fish do hide most of the time but except my black oto no one is at top of the tank.


    my surface agitation is high and my tank has a sumo in the back with to overflows to surface film is low due to skimming. So over all my O2 is high which allows me to pump as much CO2.


    My drop checker is a steady yellow and there is no CO2 mist in the tank since my dual reactor setup gives me near 100% dissolution and any left over bubbles are emptied on the sump side. So I can say the drop checker should be 80+% accurate in this case.


    The return pump should be operating at minimum of 180gph (pump rated at 250 gph - 12" head height)


    There is also a Hydor 250gph circulator on one side of the tank.


    I do 80% water change on weekend and 60-70% on Wednesdays.


    The gravel is also vacuumed once every 3 months. Filter sponge is cleaned every other week and bio media once a month. Filter floss is replaced monthly. Sponge replaced every 2 months.


    Taller stems are trimmed before water change. Uprooted, and tops replanted.


    dosing


    10 ppm NO3 per dose and 1 ppm PO4 per dose 3-4x pet week ( depends on weather I do my water changes at day or night. If I change my water at night I wait till morning to dose else I dose after water change. Sometimes it also means I dose on Tuesday and the after water change on Wednesday.


    0.2-0.3 ppm micro 3:1:1 CSM, Glut, DTPA, mostly along with Macros once my PH goes below 6.0 to avoid interaction with Phosphates.


    lights are on for 10 hours per day with 1 hour ramp up and 1 hour ramp down. CO2 starts 2 hours befor and ph is 5.5 by lights on.


    With all that said, I am not sure what's going on with my tank. GDA and some fuzzy hair type algae on leafs have been constant and I have tried everything but it does not go away. I even have some BGA along the front of the glass.


    In past I could always attribute it to poor CO2 but this time around nothing is working.


    I found few weeks back that my plants were struggling and melting. So I built a reactor instead of using my atomic diffuser and slowly got to a decent level of PH drop. The melting of most plants have stopped and the new growth is healthy. I even had some BBA which as the CO2 improved, it stopped spreading and I zapped what was left with H2O2.


    So what's going wrong?


    [​IMG]
     
    #1 rajkm, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2017
  2. edelry.junior

    edelry.junior Plant Enthusiast
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    Have you tried to reduce the biomass, as it reduces plant competition? From the picture I can't understand much but I can see that you have lots of plants growing tightly together. IME I always get a steady growth with regular trimmings. Also, excel really took care of any hair type algae I ever had.


    I don't believe the CO2 levels you have are the issue.


    On a side note, could you please post a picture of the whole tank? How big is it?
     
    #2 edelry.junior, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2017
  3. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    thats the full tank. It's a 16gal AIO.


    that's 2 weeks of growth. The plant mass was actually at its lowest point couple of weeks back. Which is even lower that what I had 9 months ago and back then I did not have any other algae except GSA and back then I used to inject even lower CO2.


    this weekend (tomorrow) I will again hack much of it down to 1/4 size. There is a lot of species in there but only plants that can take crowding are packed together like Ludwigia Sp. red, Rotala, Cuphea, Erio malaytoor and Vietnam, Blyxa. Others are spaced to its leaf size


    Generally CO2 or plant mass issues are evident when you trim down you biomass and things improve. I only use Excel on algae which won't go away on its own like BBA. That's why I also keep the tops to see if I can make improvements and the algae will disappear. I used to be able to do that consistently when I first had this GDA issue and that's why I spent a good amount of time improving my CO2.


    All this GDA and other algae started after I changed my substrate last summer. Since then I have removed a lot of species since I am changing it over to a lower maintenance tank and might even try my hand at scaping. The java ferns, Anubias and Bolbitis are start of that. The fast growing ones like Pantanal are going to go away.


    Full tank shots


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    A93C94C4-D846-497F-8D24-D8B28176CEEB_zpsy8zttrtv.jpg


    CO2 - 1+ hours before lights are on


    1DA7BC4E-5BD7-4550-8D3D-C23A976A543F_zpsjdzjtjxv.jpg


    CO2 reactors


    [​IMG]
     
    #3 rajkm, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2017
  4. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Rajkm, what's your substrate? Your water KH and GH? And what's your filter? canister or wet/dry? Also: how's your lights PAR?
     
  5. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    Substrate is Eco-Complete black


    KH - between 1-2 out of tap


    GH - 1 GH out of tap, I raise it to 3-4 depending on plants if I see deficiencies.


    The tank is a Innovative Maine All-in-one like Bio Cube or Red Sea which has sort of a sump chambers in the back to hold media, heater pump etc.


    The light is Fluval Plant and Fresh 2.0 and if I go by their numbers I would have about 100 par at substrate directly under the light but with 120 degree spread my rest of the tank has struggles with keeping red plants.


    The tank post 80% water change and trim


    [​IMG]
     
    #5 rajkm, Feb 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2017
  6. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Ok, thanks for the info. I also have Eco Complete, and for me reducing traces has worked very well. Maybe that's something you could try as well? I see you dose 0.2-0.3 ppm micro 3:1:1 CSM, Glut, DTPA every other day, right? I'd try to reduce that at just 0.05 ppm Fe from CSM, and 0.01 Fe from DTPA and 0.01 Fe from Glut and see if makes any difference. If you think Burr can't grow plants well if he doses more than 0.01ppm Fe from CSM, you get the idea how different tanks can be according to substrate, plant mass, water changes, water quality, etc. If I were you, I'd try to change that (just that) and see in 2-3 weeks if makes any difference. Or you can try to stop traces completely for 1-2 weeks and see how your plants respond. If you see improvement, that could be where you'd need to tweak.
     
  7. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    I have done the whole micro-tox thing. Many of my stems melted away including the Hygro Kompact which started it all. The stems would just get black and leafs melt. I even did flourish after the detox, but I got BBA and the plants did not improve. I have since moved on from Trace Toxicity and going to go with Liebig.


    http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr-report/aquatic-plant-fertilization/233214-need-a-little-help-dialing-in


    When I travel out, generally 3-4 days, I don't dose anything and lower my lights by 50% and I come back to iron deficiencies on most of plants. So I think that tells me that I don't have excess.


    My shrimp tank also has this algae and there I only dose 2x Flourish every other day and 2x Excel daily. The substrate on that is eco-complete capped with Flourite.
     
  8. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    All aboard the biomass train! :)
     
  9. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Ok, got it. Then, I think what Burr is saying is your next step: try to reduce biomass and see what's gonna happen. Any tank is different, so, take one factor at a time and change it to see if that makes any difference... way to go!
     
  10. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    By re-reading your description above, you could also need more Co2. I'd reduce mass first, and if that doesn't work, I'll try to increase Co2 even more. If you degas a lot, you may need more Co2. I have a 1.3-1.4 pH drop, and if I reduce Co2 to 1.2 drop, I get fuzz algae. I have an oversized wet/dry, so my tank degas pretty well, hence i need more Co2. Just my own experience with Co2...
     
  11. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    ok.. I am going to try and take out some of my fast growers Pantanal, couple of the Pogo (nitrate hoggers) and some Ludwigia senegalensis and spread out the bunch plants like Blxya, Murdania and Ammania crassicaulis.


    CO2 I am at 1.3 drop from 6.76 to 5.45. I find many shrimp struggling once I hit 5.3 but ill see if I can lower it or I might have to increase my KH to 2-2.5.


    Its the same fuzz algae that you are talking about so may be that's the way to go. I have only seen this algae since I dropped my KH and GH, earlier it used to be 4+ KH and 6+GH (remineralized RO) but it might be co-incidence, something I might try if all else fails.
     
  12. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    1.3 pH drop should be ok. I think with such a dense plant mass distribution of it could be one of the issues as well... So... Yes, try to reduce mass first and see how'll go. Keep us posted. Thanks.
     
  13. lucci418

    lucci418 New Member

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    I seems like GDA is arrived,It blocked the growth of plants.My tank used to be like this.
     
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