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Can flow be reduced during non-photo periods?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by pat w, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. pat w

    pat w Member

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    I've had some losses when adding new stock over the last few weeks. I've got a good amount of flow and the new stock seems to struggle somewhat the first day or so and then seems more able to cope with the new demands made by the increased current over their previous home. I'm not one to pass off on losses. Critters deserve better husbandry than that. I'd like to lower the flow in non-photo periods to give the guys a little more time to aclimate but I want to make sure I'm not risking the rest of the stock in the process. My plan is to place the Koralia 750 on the same timer as my CO2 or my lights.

    Established stock seems to thrive otherwise.

    Thoughts?

    Pat
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Should not hurt, but perhaps the high CO2 was an issue, new home etc, you can try it or add different flow patterns.
    As long as the O2 is good, CO2 not too high etc........the fish should be fine.

    As is always the rule, fish come first, plants/algae come second.

    If the fish where healthy to begin with, I have had no issues with the flow.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. pat w

    pat w Member

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    Thanks Tom,

    I though I might have an O2 issue but I have plenty of surface ripple and the other stock is fine.

    I had raised the CO2 earlier to battle a Rhizo outbreak. That issue could have been partially due to just an immature tank and I may be able to back down on the CO2 till I fully stock the tank.

    Thanks again for the quick responce,
    Pat
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Of Course You Can

    Hi Pat,

    Another trick, perhaps in addition to turning off the Koralia 750 with the lights is adding an air-pump and air-stone(s) or wand that comes on when the lights go off. Try this for a few months while the tank matures. ;)

    While I think this may be part of the critter loss situation, I suspect there is more to the story, if you do not mind sharing your situation, perhaps we can figure out what is going on. Your algae problem with high CO2 is an excellent clue.

    The thing most of us are guilty of is lack of patients, when it comes to stocking. I am convinced the number one cause of critter deaths is ammonia, :eek: something totally in our power to control. People want to blame all kinds of other stuff (do not even bother with the nasty-grams). Next is critter choice. :(

    I encourage everyone to keep even an informal journal, keep receipts and records of treatments, changes in tank conditions, and so forth. :gw

    Biollante
     
  5. pat w

    pat w Member

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    Ok, My first purchase was 8 Oto's (one death - replaced) followed a few weeks later by six SAE's (one death - not replaced) and 3 Nerite snails(one death - not replaced). This was the total population for some time while the Rhizo war was on. I then purchased the first 6 of the Platies (3 deaths - replaced - one additional death) The last addition was last Wednesday when I added 11 Neons and 3 Platies. (deaths 3 Neons and 1 Platy). All the deaths occur within 48 hours of introduction. After that the remaining stock is just fine. With the exception of the SAE's and Nirites the all purchases were from a local Pet Smart. BTW the Nerite death was an unfortunate encounter with the Rio 800.

    If you think ammonia could be the problem, perhaps if I slightly over fed over the space of ... say two weeks ... and let the excess food and waste feed and grow the biofilter. Then make my next addition of about 10 Neons (I'd like to top them out at between 45 and 60).

    Pat
     
    #5 pat w, Oct 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2010
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Upon Further Review

    Hi Pat,

    Given the deaths seem to be within the first 48 hours without a quarantine period it is hard to say whether it was poor stock selection (box store, Pet Smart qualifies this is most likely :eek:) or poor introduction. :(

    The fact that the Ottos have done well is a pretty good indicator of good water quality. :) The snail is one of those live and learn things.

    Rhizo doesn't just happen, though just about anyone can induce it. :rolleyes:

    While I stand by what I said earlier I went back and refreshed my memory on your situation and while I still think something is feeding the Rhizo, though it strikes me (upside the head:rolleyes:) as the Rhizo may just be stubbornly hanging on.

    It may be time for you to try one of those shortcuts too which I usually object.:eek:

    I think you have enough at risk to start a quarantine, sanitize or sterilize protocol.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Upon Further Review

    Hi Pat,

    Given the deaths seem to be within the first 48 hours without a quarantine period it is hard to say whether it was poor stock selection (box store, Pet Smart qualifies this is most likely [​IMG]) or poor introduction. [​IMG]

    The fact that the Ottos have done well is a pretty good indicator of good water quality. [​IMG] The snail is one of those live and learn things.

    Rhizo doesn't just happen, though just about anyone can induce it. [​IMG]

    While I stand by what I said earlier I went back and refreshed my memory on your situation and while I still think something is feeding the Rhizo, though it strikes me (upside the head[​IMG]) as the Rhizo may just be stubbornly hanging on.

    It may be time for you to try one of those shortcuts too which I usually object.[​IMG]

    I think you have enough at risk to start a quarantine, sanitize or sterilize protocol.[​IMG]

    Biollante
     
  8. Htomassini

    Htomassini Guest

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    fyi, otos and sae's that have been sitting at a fish store usually dont fare well. They are often undernourished since they do not have a good "green" diet, and lfs will put algeacide in their tanks too, not taking into consideration the ottos and sae's. ive had a number of ottos and saes go, but the ones that make it are very hardy. You dont mention what the temp in your tank is or what are your parameters either. i do run air at night with the lights off btw.
     
  9. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Also bear in mind that ottos are fairly dumb. Any source of current they will attempt to swim against/into. That sometimes includes impellers and tap water hoses. In general though, fish from petco are usually in pretty bad shape. Petsmart is usually a little better, but you're much better off quarantining all new additions in general.

    -
    S
     
  10. pat w

    pat w Member

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    I should have been clearer on the Rhizo front. I won, sort of, some few masses still remain mostly at the base of a rather thick stand of HM and elsewhere, but all are in retreat. I waited till I had the upper hand before I ordered the Starougyne from Tom:D.

    Intro as follows
    - Float 20 min.
    - add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
    - add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
    - add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
    - add 1/2 cup from tank float 20 min
    - Intro

    Still have the Potassium Permanginate that I have yet to use if that's one of the shortcuts you have in mind.

    Temp 76F
    Ammonia - Api test reads same as distilled water although both show a slight positive.
    Nitrite - 0
    Nitrate - ??? I'll check and get back to you.
    Dosing - 75g CaCl2, 1 rnd tsp epsom salt , 6 lvl tsp Sodium Bicarb, 1 lvl tsp GHbooster at water change;
    - 3.89 ppm NO3, 2.68 ppm K, 0.55 PO4, 0.16 ppm Fe daily autodose
    2 -canisters @ 160 gph with a total of 2 liters of Seachem Matrix

    I'm feeding standard flake and flake Spirulina and will soon get some frozen food and a veg clip for blanched veggies from PS

    Yeah, the Oto's and SAE's are entertaining during a WC.


    To All,
    No quarantine capacity at present, will see as funds permit.

    Thanks to all,
    Pat
     
    #10 pat w, Oct 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2010
  11. BigFlusher

    BigFlusher Prolific Poster

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    Whooboy -another quarantine doesn't have to be expensive rant coming :eek::rolleyes:

    will people never learn :D:D

    Joe
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Minor Rant: Quarantine Need Not Be Complicated OR Expensive

    Hi Pat,

    I suppose this is my typical rant but...

    {Rant Alert!!!}

    A quarantine system need not be expensive or complex.

    Sterilite (think Wal-Mart) containers, no need for substrate of any sort. An air pump and air-stone is nice, though not absolutely required. A hang on back filter if you have an extra one around works well. :)

    A little sponge left (hidden) in the aquarium or filter. Use the water from the target aquarium, add sponge to filter if you have one, if not to the container. A filter is not a requirement, since in most cases the amount of water is small, changing 70-100% of the water each day should not be an arduous task. :gw

    Little self-contained mini filters such as the Fluval 1 Plus are great, they are cheap, store easily in the container, the sponge is easily hidden in the display aquarium and they do not require full submersion to operate. ;)

    A heater if your place gets cold, though I use and have used heating pads, not sure what the Underwriters Laboratory folks would have to say about that, but I have not had a problem... so far. Also the top that comes with the Sterilite containers can loosely cover the container to help retain heat. :)

    {Rant Concluded}

    It also serves as a hospital tank if required. :)

    Compared to your investment, a miniscule price for insurance.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  13. Ekrindul

    Ekrindul Guru Class Expert

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    With ottos and SAE, I usually find that brussel sprouts will help them recover from their poor fish store diets better than most veggies. Primarily because other fish don't care for it so much, and ottos tend to avoid the competitive foods, so this works well for them, and with SAE in the tank, you can leave it in much longer than other veggies. The SAE, even a single one, will eat away at it so much it doesn't have any chance to break down in the tank. Cheap, long lasting supply of green food. It will attract almost every snail in the tank, also.
     
  14. pat w

    pat w Member

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    Working on it ... I'll hold off on new purchases till I have something in place.

    Update. 2 more Neons down 1 Neon MIA ... down to 5 that I can find; all strong.

    No more stock from PetSmart.

    I have reduced CO2 slightly and the Koralia is switched on/off on the CO2 timer. The Neons and Otto's seem to love it.

    Pat
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Just Get In The Habit...

    Hi Pat,

    One added advantage to the quarantine thing is that assuming Pet Smart has the two week return deal is that you keep the receipt and see. I am not necessarily opposed to folks buying from the big boxes, given the costs and problems with shipping. :)

    I think you will be better off finding a local sort maybe join a local club, find people breeding and so forth. :) Still, quarantine it is not nearly the hassle everyone imagines once you get in the habit. :cool:

    Biollante
     
    #15 Biollante, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2010
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