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Can a UV Sterilizer removed kH?

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by jmike, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    Can a UV Sterilizer removed kH?

    I added a 13w sterilizer to my 140g to battle some green water and GDA issues I was having

    The water is usually after a few days of EI dosing is 110ppm on the test kit results.. (not calibrated tho). The tap water is close to the same after sitting for an hour.

    I dose 3x per week

    CaNO3 1tsp
    KNO3 2 tsp
    K2SO4 2tsp
    KH2PO4 1/3 tsp
    CSM+B 2 tsp


    When I run the UV for a while the kH on the test kit results drops completely to nothing after around 5 days. I know it's kind of working as my pH also plummets with the same CO2 injection.

    The only other change was I added some Miracle grow (osmocote) granules under the substrate and added some new stem plants. The GH is consistent still.

    Anyone heard of this before?

    (the green water just left so I haven't tried not running the UV for a week, that's the next step once I feel confident the green wont be back)
     
  2. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    I haven't heard of this before, it may be based on correlation. I've used UV for a long time but never found any relation to dropping KH. KH could drop because of low CO2. reason is your plants still use it to compensate for the low CO2.
     
  3. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    I did read something on that. Getting pretty technical but I'm trying to keep up. I just am surprised it happens within a few days having relatively hard water out of the tap.

    I added another in tank ceramic diffuser in addition to the inline reactor im running, so we will see If that helps.

    There are no fish or inverts in the tank right now so I can play with the levels a bit.

    I also added about 200$ worth of new stem plants, changing out the amazon sword and some Anubis and crypts.

    Think I should try upping the cano3 and mgso4?
     
    #3 jmike, Apr 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2012
  4. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    I'd only do that if GH is less than 3 or if you have plants with special needs.
     
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    With Units Attached, What Readings Are Getting?

    Hi,

    Before I dumped $200.00 worth of anything in anywhere, I would figure out what is happening with the water.:rolleyes:

    I am with Dutchy, I have never seen, or for that, matter even heard of UV reducing alkalinity.:)

    Your readings are unclear to me.:eek:

    Are you saying you had 110-ppm, what, KH?:confused:

    Biollante
     
  6. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    Some more info: none of my hard scape has changed or filter media. I do have some large driftwood and some sandstone like rocks and slate like rocks.


    My kH reading was 11 drops to turn the solution from blue to yellow out of the 1hr sitting tap water. As following the conversion with the kit instructions. Then I multiplied that by 10 to get my kH # then multiply by 0.056 to get degrees which would be 6.16*

    After a few days in the tank it seem something is soaking up only the kH as it drops to 5 drops to change the solution color or 2.8* but by that time I'm due for another 50% water change.

    On a side note all the plants are doing very well and growing quite rapidly. Water is very clear and no algae.

    Its tough to control my making quick and too many changes and not waiting for the results before trying new changes. Patience is a tough thing to master.

    I hope this info helps. I did a 50% water change yesterday and after an hour or so I tested the kH and it was 10 drops to change the solution, or 5.6*. Tonight I'll do some more tests to see if there is any change in the kH.
     
    #6 jmike, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2012
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Anything Happening pH-Wise?

    Hi,

    Well it seems like everything is working so let’s see what happens.
    :)

    With your test kit, you are actually finding out how much acid it takes to consume the alkaline materials in your water. In this case

    • Multiplying the number of drops by 10 gives you the milligrams of alkaline material per liter, stated in terms of Calcium carbonate.
      • So in your case we say 11 drops X 10 = [SUP]110mg[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB], alkalinity as CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB] we also state this as 110-ppm KH.
      • Multiplying by the conversion factor 0.056 X 110 = 6.16-dKH (German degrees of hardness).

    6.16-dKH is good buffering.
    :)

    Try filling a clean glass or plastic container with water out of the tap.

    • Immediately test the pH and alkalinity note the reading.
    • 1-hour later test the pH and alkalinity note the reading.
    • 4-hours later test the pH and alkalinity note the reading.
    • 12-24-hours later test the pH and alkalinity note the reading.
    • Post the results.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Do Not Want To Assume Too Much

    Hi,

    I am assuming this is the tank from 140g Mishmash.
    :)

     
  9. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    Yes it is!

    I have changed a few things since then: I raised the lighting to 48" from the substrate, added some activated carbon into the 305 canister to help clean up the water, I gave away all the fish (cichlids are just too destructive) and removed the larger plants and added this list of plants:


    Ammania gracilis x2
    "Didiplis diandra (Peplis diandra)"x1
    "Glossostigma elatinoides" x3
    "Heteranthera zosterifolia Star Grass" x1
    Pogostemon helferi Downoi x1
    Rotala rotundifolia x2
    Rotala ssp. 'Colourata' x2
    Rotala sp. Green x2
    Lilaeopsis mauritiana x2
    Ludwigia brevipes x3
    Ludwigia glandulosa x1

    As stated above I also added some miracle grow shake n' feed 19-6-12 under the flourite black substrate when I did a tear down after the fish were gone. I added maybe about 10 balls per square inch, probably too much..

    Tested the tank water tonight:

    NH3, NH4 = 0mg/L
    NO2 = 0.1mg/L
    NO3 = 10-20mg/L
    pH = ~6.5 on both the pH monitor and the liquid test kit
    PO4= ~2.5mg/L
    KH = 50mg/L (2.8KdH) Seems the alkalinity is dropping again.
    GH= 160mg/L (8.96KdH)

    I have a dual drop checker (with reference fluid below) and to me it looked more yellow than the bottom after the day of CO2 injection. Due to a leaky manifold I have also switched from the inline reactor to only the ceramic diffuser I picked up recently.

    I will perform the other tests you recommended tomorrow and post my results.

    Thanks for your help and time, it is very much appreciated.


    -Mike-
     
  10. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Progress of a Sort

    Hi Mike,

    I was going to mention somewhere down the line, those fish were not particularly compatible.
    :p

    Well give yourself a month or six weeks before any critters, the Miracle-Gro may have been ill advised, but with plants, only it shouldn’t be a problem.

    Do you have a water report you could post, I cannot seem to find one on line and I am a bit curious about a couple of the water specs you listed.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    CO2.........this will be the key to your success..........that and light, dosing is the easy part...........
     
  12. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    Well that stinks that the miracle grow was no good. I suppose I should not have figured it was the same as the osmocote+. I knew I didn't have the trace but I was hoping to get by while still adding the CSM+B.

    The only data on the water I found was that of what I posted in the mishmash thread (with the TDS readings and such). I live in grande prairie AB, Canada. Our tap water comes out of our local river which flows down through the rocky mountains. I'll dig up the link and post in a bit.

    I was planning on adding 2 50mm ceramic atomic diffusers from GLA, one on each side of the tank, to get better dispersal of the CO2.
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Get the CO2, kind of handy that is as an answer…

    Hi,

    Yes, absolutely CO[SUB]2[/SUB], get the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] right while waiting to add the critters.
    :excitement:

    The curiosity of the disappearing alkalinity is if nothing else interesting.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  14. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    The water test results:

    Immediate: ph 7.4 kH 70mg/L

    1hr: ph 7.2 kH 70mg/L

    24hr: ph 7.4 kH 70mg/L
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    That is Good

    Hi,

    Okay that is good, now do the same test with water out of the aquarium.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  16. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    I'm due for a water change tomorrow so I'll test some after it has been in the tank for 1hr, 4hrs, 12hrs, 24hrs, 48hrs and so on and will post back.
     
  17. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Very Good

    Hi,

    Try a test just before the water change.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  18. jmike

    jmike Junior Poster

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    Note: the UV is not running

    Test before WC: pH 6.5 KH 30mg/L 1.68 deg

    After WC: pH 6.8, KH 50mg/L 2.8 deg

    4hrs After WC: pH 6.7 KH 50mg/L 2.8deg

    12hrs After WC (overnight no CO2): pH 6.8 KH 40mg/L 2.24deg



    I decided to test for NH3/NH4, NO2 and NO3 as well and the results were quite alarming

    I did the 50% WC and added my 2tsp KNO3, 1/4tsp KH2PO4, Seachem Prime and some Stability

    Tested 1hr after the tank had settled

    NO2 ~0.1ppm
    NO3 ~10-20ppm
    NH3/NH4 0ppm
    PO4 ~2ppm

    This morning I tested

    NO2 ~1-3ppm (hard to tell it's so purple)
    NO3 ~20-50ppm
    NH3/NH4 0ppm
    PO4 ~2ppm

    All I did was remove water, no gravel vacuuming, no filter cleaning (cleaned them about 2 weeks ago in only tank water). Could that miracle grow be causing the NO2 to spike after a WC,? all was fine until last night. I'm also seeing some melting on a few of the stem plants, looks to be starting near the base and moving it's way up.

    [attachment=1076:name]

    I also tested the tap water for NO2 and the reading is 0ppm

    IMG_1506.jpg
     
    #18 jmike, May 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2012
  19. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    ... And Get That CO2 dialed In...

    Hi,

    The Nitrite level would be alarming if critters were present, not so bad in plant only, I think what you are seeing is the Nitrogen cycle getting underway; it is possible the Miracle Gro kicked it off.

    My best guess is things will right themselves over the next few weeks.
    :gw

    I set up several little test beds trying to see what various Miracle Gro combinations look like, including a couple of well-established tanks.
    ;)

    Not in time to help you out, but next time I will be ready!
    :)

    Biollante
     
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