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Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by detlef, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. detlef

    detlef Member

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    Tom,

    ref. to Rotala macrandra you were answering on APD:

    Message: 3
    Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:49:01 -0700 (PDT)

    > Ca (ppm)-
    > Mg (ppm)-

    At a 4:1, about 2-10 range is good, more seems to bring out deep
    reds, many in SF that added small amounts of GH booster has pale
    but healthy plants, I tended to have redder plants and my GH is
    about 9 where I was at.<


    Are you saying here that the Ca/Mg ratio plays a significant role in bringing out reds in SAMs? And if so with more Ca relative to Mg red plants appear to be even redder?

    Regards,
    Detlef
     
    #1 detlef, Sep 11, 2006
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    Not sure about individual coloration with respect to each , Mg and Ca.

    But with both, it seesm higher GH's seem to help.
    Likely due to enzymes that make the red colored pigments.

    In ADA soil and soft water, the plants are nice and grow well, but are pale.
    I get blood red color with less light and more GH.

    Always have.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #2 Tom Barr, Sep 11, 2006
  3. JamesC

    JamesC Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    This is interesting. My rotala macrandra is a deep red colour even though my nitrates are in the 20-30 range. I used to have a problem with leaf curling and then found out my water was nearly all calcium. I now add magnesium which cured the leaf curling but my Ca:Mg ratio is still high in favour of Ca.
     
    #3 JamesC, Sep 12, 2006
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    If you are Mg limited, things are not too fun.
    That might have a lot to do with it.

    But if you add the GH booster, that takes care of both Ca and Mg.
    Generally, most folks have high Ca and sometimes low Mg.
    So a little epsom salt will go a long way.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #4 Tom Barr, Sep 12, 2006
  5. robin adair

    robin adair Junior Poster

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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    I have recently recieved PMEQ (Barr's GH builder) through Greg Watson and plan to use this to boost GH, and in light of this discussion it seems Ca, Mg and K will be taken care of, and in the correct ratio. But I cannot determine what dosing rates to use this product to raise Gh. What is the dosing rate to raise 1Gh, for example?

    Also, as the Gh builder has a smidge of CMS, is it appropriate to then use CMS+B as the source of trace elements at the rates indicated in the PPDD formula??
    Just a little confused right now.

    Thanks
     
    #5 robin adair, Sep 14, 2006
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    I've used it like I would SeaChem's Eq.
    Seems to be fine, I use the same dosign routine they give:

    Now, I do not mix the GH booster myself nor know the precise weight mix.
    That's Greg.

    But it does not matter too much in the context of plant growth for us unless we really want to get techical and have a specific question, the little bit of Fe and Mn are slight, unless it's a non CO2 tank, assume to be = 0.00ppm/neglibile.

    http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Equilbrium.html

    Noter:GH Booster has more Mg, less K+ and is much cheaper.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #6 Tom Barr, Sep 14, 2006
  7. robin adair

    robin adair Junior Poster

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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    For the record, here is what Greg passed onto me on the composition of Barr GH Builder.
    "Three parts Calcium Sulfate, Three Parts Potassium Sulfate, and One Part
    Magnesium Sulfate. Then there is a very small trace amount of Iron Chelate
    and Plantex CSM thrown in to equal the same approximate ratio in Seachem's
    Equillibrium" ...
    In terms of price, it sure is cheaper than Seachem Equilbrium :) , even after I pay international postage rates. I can now afford to dose at prescribed rates, however, its seems so wrong to be adding such large quantities of chemical into the system, I just can't get myself to do a full dose. The equilibrium rates are 1 tablespoon per 80L to increase 3 Gh. I added 1 tablespoon per 150 gal and that seemed like wheelbarrow loads. Why is it that such high volumes are required when we deal in teaspoons or fractions of teaspoons for N and P???? :rolleyes:

    R
     
    #7 robin adair, Sep 16, 2006
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    You do not need them.
    But it's not that much, most of weight is water in those Hydrated salts(MgSO4 * 7H2O), and SO4's etc.

    1-2 degrees is more than enough.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #8 Tom Barr, Sep 16, 2006
  9. Professor Myers

    Professor Myers Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    Sorry Tom, I just got around to reading this post. I'm in tears laughing my fool head off ! :D Priceless !!!
     
    #9 Professor Myers, Sep 17, 2006
  10. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    I love a good joke. Could you explain this one? Just assume I am a doddering old fool!
     
    #10 VaughnH, Sep 17, 2006
  11. Professor Myers

    Professor Myers Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    Just having a good laugh on myself. One of the few perks of being goofy, and absent minded. :gw I had just inquired about Tom's GH booster about 5 minutes before "actually taking the time" to check up on posts. Most all my questions had already been answered "the day before". Timing is everything ! :rolleyes: This is actually a pet peeve of mine, and I commited it to my own Chagrin. :eek:
     
    #11 Professor Myers, Sep 17, 2006
  12. robin adair

    robin adair Junior Poster

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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    More detailed information on Barrs GH builder is in this forum, if a search is conducted using 'PMEQ'.
    Handy information if you know where to look.
    Thanks for the tips, Tom. I remember posts on Rotala wallichi and Mg levels with the recommendation that higher Mg will enhance growth. This certainly seems to be the case and Barrs Gh builder has improved the growth of my plants that were previously struggling a little. No doubt Seachem EQ will do the same, but PMEQ is more affordable.
    R
     
    #12 robin adair, Sep 20, 2006
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Ca/Mg ratio and red coloration

    Well, you can also buy SeaChem N or P or K as well:)

    Greg certainly did not have to do the GH builder, but it's something only he sells really and Greg also just does the ferts as a service to folks in this hobby, it's most definitely not a money maker :(
    There's no mark up and shipping cost are often the bulk of the pricing.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #13 Tom Barr, Sep 21, 2006
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