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C02 rate for my 220 gal

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Gerryd, May 11, 2014.

  1. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    I finally got around to measuring my c02 injection rate via the displacement method.. I used the following tools:

    1. A clear plexiglass 300 ml measuring cup with the following marks at: 50, 75, 100, 150, and 175, 250, 275, and 300 ml
    2. My canon dslr movie mode timer. I used a tripod to keep the movie running for 5 minutes while I did this. I used the tilted viewer to easily watch the timer.

    Here are the steps I took:

    1. Start movie mode. Of course is out of focus but the timer was the important part :)
    2. Have c02 on. Simply disconnected the c02 tube from the needle wheel.
    3. Fill measuring cup with water and invert. Ensure no air in cup.
    4. At a minute mark, place the c02 tube under the cup and let the c02 bubble into it.
    5. Remove c02 at the next 1 minute mark.

    I repeated these steps 3 times.

    Results:

    A bit less than 150 ml for each execution of the test. Remember my hand may not have kept the cup level, but you get the idea lol

    I think this is approx. twice what I remember Tom saying he used for his 120 or 180, can't remember.

    Just for review:

    1. C02 tube is 4' max with an inline (cheap air type) check valve approx. 1' in. The other end goes to a drilled hole in the casing of the NW pump.

    2. NW output diverted via 2' tube to large cerges.

    3. 2' output hose from cerges back to sump.

    I am running approx. 50 mmoles at substrate. Max lighting intensity is 50% of 12 tubes for a duration of 6.5 hours.

    So, I will use this method to measure the 57 and 75 gal and see how they compare.

    So, I will post the blurry video later and you can see the bubble rate I use. MUCH more than 5-6 bps :)

    I use to fret about how much I used/consumed compared to others, but it is what it is. The fish seem fine and as long as that is the case, and I have 2x20lb tanks for the scape, I am okay with it.

    I consume a 20lb tank in 8-9 weeks at the present rate.

    Thanks!
     
    #1 Gerryd, May 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
  2. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Very interesting, thank you Gerry. I'd be curious to know what kind of overflow you have for those tanks: durso, herbie or other? That's important to understand the degassing rate.... Looking forward!
     
  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    DIY herbie on all 3. Same basic setup for filter and c02 on all, except for size on the 220. The 57 and 75 have the same filter and c02 setup.

    - - - Updated - - -

    DIY herbie on all 3. Same basic setup for filter and c02 on all, except for size on the 220. The 57 and 75 have the same filter and c02 setup.
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I use 98 mls a min on my 180.
     
  5. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    So, I am again 33% higher.

    I think the difference can be found among the following:

    1. Large surface area. 18 sq ft for me vs 12 sq ft for a 180.
    2. Heavy surface ripple on my tank. I use twin outlets, one on each end, whereas I think Tom has a single outlet.
    3. I have a larger and more open wet/dry than Tom. I think it is larger at least, but for sure is not sealed as well :)
    4. Efficiency of the c02 system. I think Tom's may be more efficient than mine lol

    So, this is interesting that your 120 uses even less but with very high light and some demanding plants.

    Thanks Tom for posting this value.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, I am again 33% higher.

    I think the difference can be found among the following:

    1. Large surface area. 18 sq ft for me vs 12 sq ft for a 180.
    2. Heavy surface ripple on my tank. I use twin outlets, one on each end, whereas I think Tom has a single outlet.
    3. I have a larger and more open wet/dry than Tom. I think it is larger at least, but for sure is not sealed as well :)
    4. Efficiency of the c02 system. I think Tom's may be more efficient than mine lol

    So, this is interesting that your 120 uses even less but with very high light and some demanding plants.

    Thanks Tom for posting this value.
     
  6. Christophe

    Christophe Subscriber
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    What If...

    It looks like generally we all pipe our returns back into the tank right at the surface. This is good for generating surface ripple, but also offgasses the CO2 that we just put in.

    What if we put the return deeper down in the tank, like just over the bottom, and use a Koralia or something at the opposite end to generate surface ripple and current back to the overflow?

    A well-done sump return already has a siphon breaker drilled into it right at the water's surface, so we won't drain the tank and flood the sump in a power failure. Are there any other dangers I haven't thought of?
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    For me, the issue is aesthetics....I no longer use my vortech powerhead and I do not want tubes on the INSIDE of my tank if I can help it.

    I can direct the flow downward if I desire and not all is surface ripple. I can see all plants sway even on the substrate so I am ok I think :)

    I would leave the outlets up top and use the ph lower in the tank were I to go that way....

    Thanks

    - - - Updated - - -

    For me, the issue is aesthetics....I no longer use my vortech powerhead and I do not want tubes on the INSIDE of my tank if I can help it.

    I can direct the flow downward if I desire and not all is surface ripple. I can see all plants sway even on the substrate so I am ok I think :)

    I would leave the outlets up top and use the ph lower in the tank were I to go that way....

    Thanks
     
  8. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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    One of the main benefits from my overflow box is that it removes surface scum. If the screen needs cleaning, the crap seems to build up a dam at water level and then it pulls from below the surface, and in 24 hours I have the beginning of surface scum. I did find that placing the 8-mesh screen around the outside of the box (instead of in a slot around the top) allows it to better pull from the surface without the dam building up.

    My tank seems to be healthier if I keep the surface scum off, probably it is able to absorb more O2 without the film.

    Gerry, it seems that you are using 6.8 ml per 10 gal/Minute and Tom is using 5.4 ml per 10 gal/Minute. At the risk of starting a an inaccurate watts/gallon type of standard, I will use that as a reference and will test mine this weekend.
     
  9. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Besides the amount of co2 in ml/minute, would be useful to also know the Co2 drop you guys are achieving, unless your philosophy is just to raise Co2 until fish are stressed and gasping. The PH drop together with the co2 volume will give us a good reference.

    Thanks!
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I have not tested the 120 actually, that's just the 180.
    The 120 might be the same.
     
  11. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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    The differences between Co2/ml/min applied to the rate of drop in PH should be the amount of diffusion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The differences between Co2/ml/min applied to the rate of drop in PH should be the amount of diffusion.
     
  12. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Yes, I would agree with that!
     
  13. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi all,

    Well I just measured the rate of c02 for my 75 gal tank. This is using 3 small LED strips and maxing at 50 mmoles at the substrate and that is on a good day :) Mostly ferns and some downoi and some sunset cyrpts.

    So, I tested the rate 3 times as in my original post and recorded 75 ml per minute of c02 displacement.

    I am going to measure the 57 gal rate in a bit and will post the results.

    This tank growth is good, but downoi are small. Some BBA but only on the cypress knees mostly at the tops.

    Later.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi all,

    Well I just measured the rate of c02 for my 75 gal tank. This is using 3 small LED strips and maxing at 50 mmoles at the substrate and that is on a good day :) Mostly ferns and some downoi and some sunset cyrpts.

    So, I tested the rate 3 times as in my original post and recorded 75 ml per minute of c02 displacement.

    I am going to measure the 57 gal rate in a bit and will post the results.

    This tank growth is good, but downoi are small. Some BBA but only on the cypress knees mostly at the tops.

    Later.
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    I just did the 57 gal as well and the rate is mid-way between the 50 and 75 ml marks, so I say 62 or so :)

    To summarize c02 injection rate:

    220 gal = 150 ml per minute
    75 gal = 50 ml per minute
    57 gal = 62 ml per minute

    All use a bit oversized wet/dry, all have high current, and all use victor/ideal/burkert/Swagelok regulator setups.

    Take care.

    Next up, is to get a good amount of PAR readings on my 220.

    Later.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey all,

    I just did the 57 gal as well and the rate is mid-way between the 50 and 75 ml marks, so I say 62 or so :)

    To summarize c02 injection rate:

    220 gal = 150 ml per minute
    75 gal = 50 ml per minute
    57 gal = 62 ml per minute

    All use a bit oversized wet/dry, all have high current, and all use victor/ideal/burkert/Swagelok regulator setups.

    Take care.

    Next up, is to get a good amount of PAR readings on my 220.

    Later.
     
  15. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Thank you Gerry, this is great stuff! I will measure my 75gl again now that I have lowered co2 a little due to my overflow modification (from durso to herbie) which degasses much less than before. Thanks!
     
  16. a-hua

    a-hua Subscriber

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    Thank you Gerry. May I know the temperature of these 3 tanks?

    thanks,

    a-hua

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you Gerry. May I know the temperature of these 3 tanks?

    thanks,

    a-hua
     
  17. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi, not sure I even know...the last time I used a thermometer the 220 was 78-82 and the smaller ones I am sure run warmer.

    I will see if I can find a meter or some such and measure it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi, not sure I even know...the last time I used a thermometer the 220 was 78-82 and the smaller ones I am sure run warmer.

    I will see if I can find a meter or some such and measure it.
     
  18. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    C02 rate for my 220 gal

    Gerry, i don't think to know this already or have read it anywhere in your postings, but do you have any algae in your tanks? Zero or something? Just curious....
     
  19. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Fab,

    Yes, I am not immune to algae :) But it is limited...

    I tend to get BBA on hardscape in the 220 that is NOT covered in plants and that get good light. I get BBA on the tips of the cypress knees in the 75 gal. None in the 57. I get some BGA in the 220 where the hg crushes up against the glass but just a tiny bit.

    I do get some type of string algae in the hairgrass that Tom had warned me about. But is easy to spot and comb out...

    All told, not enough to spend much time or anxiety on....

    I very rarely get algae on plants and that is a warning sign that something is amiss..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Fab,

    Yes, I am not immune to algae :) But it is limited...

    I tend to get BBA on hardscape in the 220 that is NOT covered in plants and that get good light. I get BBA on the tips of the cypress knees in the 75 gal. None in the 57. I get some BGA in the 220 where the hg crushes up against the glass but just a tiny bit.

    I do get some type of string algae in the hairgrass that Tom had warned me about. But is easy to spot and comb out...

    All told, not enough to spend much time or anxiety on....

    I very rarely get algae on plants and that is a warning sign that something is amiss..
     
  20. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    That's good to know for me Gerry! Even though I can assure you, when I started this tank (75gl) 5 years ago with just Eco complete, 40w x 3 T8 lights, Seachem Flourish once a week and 3bps of co2, I never had algae for the first 2 years and plants used to grow like crazy!!!i used to trash away buckets of trimmed plants every 2 weeks. I wish to get back like that... Now I dose like crazy, add co2 like crazy, double water changes, much more work, and plants have more problems... Go figure!
     
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