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Building a new AGA Air Gas Dual Stage Regulator - HPT270

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by cmdR_CHRIS, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    Hi everyone! First off I want to give a big THANK YOU for all the great guides and wealth of information I have found on The BarrReport. This is my first time building a CO2 Regulator. I bought a new AGA Air Gas Dual Stage High Purity Regulator HPT 270-125-4F-DK Lab Grade for $90 shipped from It-who-must-not-be-named. I think I got a really good deal!

    The plan is to first get myself a chrome plated brass CGA320. I'm going to get ADA pressure resistant tubing, ADA Clear Parts Kit, and possibly a Bubble Counter and diffuser from ADA. Depending on the final build cost I might have to get my glassware from you-know-what. I will be using a tube adapter to connect up the tubing.

    I am still undecided on the needle valve, and solenoid. I want to stick with the chrome plated look, but if I can't find the parts I need I will probably go with stainless steel for aesthetic reasons. Recommendations on needle valves and solenoids would be great! I'm still unsure about what pipe fittings I will need, when I have the regulator in hand I should have a better idea of the pieces I need to complete this jigsaw puzzle. The biggest goal for this build is to stick to a $300 budget. In the end I should have a CO2 system that will last decades. :D

    UPDATE The regulator was delivered this weekend. I am not happy with its condition. On both gauges the screws are heavily rusted and the clear faces are scuffed and dented. I was not expecting the CGA 320 Nut/Nipple to come with the regulator, that is one less thing to buy, but it is also see heavy use and it quite dirty inside.
    [​IMG]
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    I brought up these issues with the eBay seller and he agreed to give me a partial refund which brings the price of the regulator down to $65. I just hope that it is still in good working order, I will only know when my 5 LB CO2 Aluminum Cylinder arrives.
     
    #1 cmdR_CHRIS, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2014
  2. jerrybforl

    jerrybforl Lifetime Members
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    Can't see the pics. Sounds like you got a very good deal!

    Not quite sure who "you know what" is.

    Ideal Needle Valve is very good...American made and hand crafted. You can find the part# in one of Matt's threads. This will run you about $75 without the vernier handle and about $100 with the vernier handle. The vernier handle helps you keep more accurate mark of where you've had your CO2. Has little lines so you can count. Not necessary. I have one with and without. I honestly tend to not even pay attention to the vernier.

    Burkett solenoid is very good too! This is about $50.

    Swagalok fittings are very good as well! The check valve is $25 the rest few bucks.

    You may be able to stay close to the $300 budget. Just follow all the build guides, and you will be fine!:)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can't see the pics. Sounds like you got a very good deal!

    Not quite sure who "you know what" is.

    Ideal Needle Valve is very good...American made and hand crafted. You can find the part# in one of Matt's threads. This will run you about $75 without the vernier handle and about $100 with the vernier handle. The vernier handle helps you keep more accurate mark of where you've had your CO2. Has little lines so you can count. Not necessary. I have one with and without. I honestly tend to not even pay attention to the vernier.

    Burkett solenoid is very good too! This is about $50.

    Swagalok fittings are very good as well! The check valve is $25 the rest few bucks.

    You may be able to stay close to the $300 budget. Just follow all the build guides, and you will be fine!:)
     
  3. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    I can't see the pictures either, but if I click on them I can see them in the pop up gallery. I uploaded them through this site so I don't know what went wrong. Next time I post pictures I will upload them to imgur, link from there, and edit the first post.

    You-know-what is eBay. I was not sure if you could link there, most sites its against the rules.

    Thank you for the recommendations. I'm not too picky about having a vernier handle, it seems more for aesthetics, like you said not really necessary. I was both considering the Ideal Needle Valve and Burkert solenoid. My choices for Solenoids are, Burkert, SMC VDW, Clippard EV. For the Metering valves I'm picking between, Swagelok S series, Parker H0-3, Ideal 54-1. I also read that Brooks Instruments makes good valves but they are very expensive. I'm also on the hunt for deals on You-know-what. The build guides are a great help, so thankful for the members writing that up for everyone to learn.

    The Clippard EV's seem to go for peanuts on You-know-what so it could be the best choice, but not many guides about installing them in a system build. The Swagelok's are not too expensive on there also. There is just so much choice out there it can be overwhelming.
     
  4. alanle

    alanle Prolific Poster

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    all of the parts you listed are good. They are available on you know where at the moment.
     
  5. oldpunk

    oldpunk Guru Class Expert

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    eBay links are permitted here. (Thanks, Tom!)
     
  6. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    Please help picking between parts!

    Hi everyone!

    My regulator arrived this weekend, not to happy that it is not new as listed, but the seller brought the price down to $65 shipped. I'm okay with that. I have been looking at Solenoid's and so far everyone recommends Burkert 6011. I have found two on eBay for the fraction of the price other distributors are selling them, and they are SS. Can I use these, eBay, Burkert 6011 solenoid's in this regulator build? It looks like I will need to wire both of them, not to much trouble. If I can use these it would greatly help trim down my build costs so I can afford some lovely new glassware!

    I have been messaging Matt F. and Bettatail, they both recommend that I go with a Fabco NV-55-18 Valve. I am still open to other options, just have to find them for the right price.
     
  7. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    Regulator is DOA

    I picked up my CO2 cylinder and tested the regulator. It leaks internally exceedingly. From what I can tell the first diaphragm is broken, but the second one still holds pressure. Time to hunt for a new regulator. Building this regulator has been disparaging, hopefully I can find the right regulator soon. I already purchased a 5 lb CO2 cylinder, and Do!Aqua bubble counter/diffuser.
     
  8. alanle

    alanle Prolific Poster

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    Can you return the reg to the seller?
     
  9. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    I received a full refund, and found more regulators to ponder over.

    I had to call eBay customer service. After close to an hour being on hold, the eBay representative heard me out and looked at the communication between myself and the seller. I was refunded the full purchase price, minus the partial refund I had already received. It was a big sigh of relief, thank goodness for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

    [HR][/HR]

    I found four more dual stage regulators on eBay in my price range. They look to be in great condition, however I have no idea what the model numbers mean. The Victor seems to be a discontinued, Bayer ???, APTech ???, and I have never been able to figure out Cocoa's model numbers.

    Victor, GPT250-15-973-4F
    Bayer, 127191 CGA-978
    APTech, AP1710S 4PW FV4 FV400
    Concoa, 3123332-68-B03


    I think the Victor might be a safe bet, but it is the oldest looking regulator in the lineup, followed by the APTech. The Concoa looks slightly scuffed, and the Bayer is still in the bag and looks to be brand new. Ideally I would want the Bayer, but I can't find any information about it. Not really sure it is dual stage, it certainly is long enough to contain two diaphragms. The Concoa looks really nice too.

    Any help decoding these regulator model numbers would greatly appreciated!
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The BR is not a corporate vendor pander.

    In case no one realized that, thus "you know who" or code words are NOT needed.

    Ebay's newer rules favor the buyer(rightly so), much to whining seller's dismay. And given Paypal's relationship, they will get the $.
    I follow a similar rule myself with customers.

    So you can pander, just make sure you pander to the correct group.
    I shamelessly pander to hobbyists and have long supported free speech and net neutrality.
     
  11. DukeNJ

    DukeNJ Lifetime Charter Member
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    I have an Ideal needle valve that I'm not using. If you still need one you can have it for $50 plus $5 for shipping. PM me if interested.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  12. alanle

    alanle Prolific Poster

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    The Victor and the Bayer regulators have only 15PSI delivery pressure. You can only use it with a reactor. Most ApTech regulators are VCR ports. Face seal adapters are expensive. The Concoa 312 has a 100 PSI output pressure. I would go for this one. Let me know if you need a solenoid. I have some Burkert 6011.

    This is a brand new regulator. The delivery pressure is 50PSI which is perfect. Price is $110 which is isn't bad at all. You can ask the seller for $70 shipped. If you comes back with ~$80-$90, take it.

    http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&toolid=10001&campid=5338187531&icep_item=171128393365
     
    #12 alanle, Sep 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2014
  13. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    PM sent thank you!

    Thanks for saving me the headaches with the ApTech, Victor and Bayer. Thanks for pointing that out, I do think I should be going for minimum of 30-60 psi working pressure. It will give me plenty of wiggle room for upgrades in the future. Thank you for finding the AirProducts regulator. I have contacted the seller, and hope he goes for the lower price.

    I found a couple of other regulators that I think will do the job and look nice, Linde R200/2 and druva FMD23216 BCG10. The druva is brand new in box :)

    Thanks for your help!
     
  14. Flyinghellfish

    Flyinghellfish Prolific Poster

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    Show them that Linde regulator Chris, she a beau! I think you might have the first left handed reg to be used as a custom. I don't know if you want the price to be listed so I won't say it, but a nice score bro. The regulator comes from Linde's Red Line, which is supposedly the top of the top. Their Baseline series is pretty good too (rebrand Concoa, Praxair whatever).

    What needle valve did you end up getting?
     
  15. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    Yey I was the winning bidder for this beautiful Linde Redline Regulator: R200/2-8SS.
    [​IMG]
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    My winning bid was 1/12 of the retail price! Fingers crossed that it is fully functional when it arrives. This will be the third regulator I have purchased on eBay. Fortunately with the first two, one was DOA and the second a scam, I was fully reimbursed for my losses.

    I am still looking for a good priced SS needle valve. I'm confident I will find one soon.
     
  16. Flyinghellfish

    Flyinghellfish Prolific Poster

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    Wait, what happen with the first two regulators?

    That RedLine is pretty slick with the small gauges, you don't have to remove the gauges to connect the postbody or CGA, not like the mickey mouse ears on my Matheson. Do you know what the max psi is on that Linde? I'm guessing it's around 100 psi?

    If you get a solenoid that is rated for anything lower than 100, make sure to put that set up in a secure place. I'm not sure if your Linde has a removable cap but some regulators will let you set the max psi on the adjustment knob.
     
  17. oldpunk

    oldpunk Guru Class Expert

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    It says 8 bar. That's 116 psi
     
  18. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    The first one that I started with was the AGA Air Gas, its first stage diaphragm was broken. The seller sold it as new, but what i received was clearly second hand, eBay fully refunded me. The second one, DruVa pressure regulator, I made offers to the buyer and he accepted my final offer but then increased the price and messaged intimidating threats about reporting me and leaving me a negative review unless I "man up and make payment." The seller even opened an Unpaid Item Case against me to try and force me into paying the increased price. I ended up having to sit on hold with ebay customer service for about 30 minutes to report the seller and fix the damage he did to my ebay profile. Ebay is a sketchy place, thankfully eBay had implemented more policies that defend the buyer against fraudulent sellers.

    Yes, as oldpunk said its around 116 psi; 1bar ~ 14 psi. I'm delighted with my Linde. I have pressure tested it over the weekend and it's still holding strong today. I can't wait to get the all the parts together and build the system.

    I'm buying a SS Burkert 6011A 24V 4W 2/2 65psi Inlet/Outlet 1/8 NPT and brass Hoke Milli-Mite 1300 Metering Valve from another member. He has also suggested to adjust the max psi, not sure if you can do that with my linde, but I don't think it will be a problem. The maximum output pressure I would ever have would be 30psi, I will be sticking to 5
     
  19. cmdR_CHRIS

    cmdR_CHRIS Junior Poster

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    Update

    I received my burkert solenoid and hoke needle valve last week.
    [​IMG]
    Just waiting for the mettleair, Push to Connect Check Valve Union 1/4" OD - 1/4" OD, and PU Tubing (3ft)1/4" OD Random Color to be delivered.
    I wanted to get Swagelok Stainless Steel Pipe Fittings, unfortunately they don't have the elbows I need in stock. Getting the brass fittings, they are available and it saves me some $. Going to pick them up at the local distributer.
     
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