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Break it down again Tom!

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by travdawg, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. travdawg

    travdawg Guru Class Expert

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    Hey Tom, could you give us another breakdown of how to build a good substrate? I have read your posts on the subject elsewhere, but would like to see it as a sticky somewhere on here. I know you dont do much else, but sit around all day, waiting for me to post requests, so the wait is over!!!
     
    #1 travdawg, Feb 22, 2005
  2. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Travdawg,

    I think this is one of those: "All will be revealed in the fullness of time"...

    Meanwhile, here's something you can experiment with:

    1. First layer: 1" of yak dung
    2. Next layer: 1/2" of very dried guano
    3. Top layer: 2" of glass marbles, your choice

    I promise, the guano won't float to the top, lol.

    Bill
     
    #2 chubasco, Feb 22, 2005
  3. travdawg

    travdawg Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Crap, now to find an importer of yak dung, & guano... I assume that is any variety of bat dung we are looking for, nothing specific?
     
    #3 travdawg, Feb 22, 2005
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Bill often loses his marbles:) By keeping them in the tank, he is far more sane.
    But chasing little bats around in the caves trying to extract things from them is just plain wrong.........what if it misses the cup when you are tailing one?



    I suggest two products, till they make what I'd like which will be more expensive than anything else made BTW, Onyx sand and then flourite.

    3-5" depth is good, you can slope it down to 1" in the front back to 6-8" in the rear, what ever you'd like.


    I add mulm, as much as I can vacuum from my tanks, a friends' or a LFS etc.
    Sponge filter squeezins work well also, everyone knows someone with a flithy filter........

    I add the mulm, then I add leonardite, it matches well with onyx sand and is less messy than peat, but peat can be used, about 1/4" dusting, and then rinse the substrate well, (3x in the bucket) and add on top of this.

    I generally will mix the bottom 1" with the mulm, and peat etc and then cap the rest off with the plain onyx.

    You those of you that are cheap..........I suggest using a similar color sand to onyx, then using the grey Turface, at 12$ for 50lbs and mixed at a 50: 50 rate with heavy sand, this works well and looks decent.

    The grey Turface looks just like the onyx almost but is very light weight.

    I hate gravel that's light weight.
    Some folks don't mind, I really do mind the weight issue a great deal.

    It's a deal breaker for me, but I've found ways around it and still be cheap, mixing works if you can find a mix that does not look to gaudy.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #4 Tom Barr, Feb 22, 2005
  5. travdawg

    travdawg Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Thank you for the reply Tom, I have been sitting outside with a cup & a net waiting for some bats to swoop down & get me... Guess my insect costume wasnt too convincing, I didnt get any hits...

    I think I will ikely end up going the eco complete route. I was suprised to find it for $10 a bag at my LFS, which is over 50% off of what my OTHER LFS sells it for. I dont think I will be able to beat the price anywhere.

    If I go the EC route, would you suggest adding any laterite, or other materials to the SS, or just go with the EC & nothing else?
     
    #5 travdawg, Feb 22, 2005
  6. Ian H

    Ian H Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    I'm thinking of going with Ecco. In the write-up it states that you don't need to add laterite or anything else. Do you fancy a trip to West Yorkshire in the UK? It's nearly $40 here.

    Ian
     
    #6 Ian H, Feb 23, 2005
  7. travdawg

    travdawg Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Are you buying the ticket? I wonder how many 20lb bags I could cram in a carry on?
     
    #7 travdawg, Feb 23, 2005
  8. Cornhusker

    Cornhusker Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    travdawg, that is a very good price for the eco-complete, especially because you did not have to pay shipping. you might think about straining this product, unless yiou like boulders. the last shipment i received had large pieces of the product and i had to strain. i still ended up with too large to suit me . next time i will run thru smaller strainer. loosing the water it's packed in does not cause a problem. plants grow great , but could look better if carfully strained. :) regards, cornhusker
     
    #8 Cornhusker, Feb 23, 2005
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    I hate the inconsistent pieces that are big also.

    But it does well, you pay for water when you pay for shipping.
    I hate that.

    Color is nice though.

    Light weight.

    No, you don't don't need laterite for Flourite, EC, Onyx sand etc, I question the use of laterite in the first place.

    I would add some mulm and peat or leonardite.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #9 Tom Barr, Feb 23, 2005
  10. travdawg

    travdawg Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Thansk alot folks!
     
    #10 travdawg, Feb 24, 2005
  11. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    So except some mulm and peat in the bottom layer there is only onyx sand?

    How about mixing some flourite in there? Or is visual benefit of plain onyx more prevailing of some extra iron?
     
    #11 Roman, Mar 14, 2005
  12. Cornhusker

    Cornhusker Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    :) can someone tell me what leonardite is,and where to get? :) :) cornhusker
     
    #12 Cornhusker, Mar 15, 2005
  13. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Cornhusker,
    Try www.tastyharvest.com. Go to the online store and it will be nutrients/
    additives, click on Black Diamond. Tub of it costs $14.95 plus shipping.

    Bill
     
    #13 chubasco, Mar 15, 2005
  14. Roman

    Roman Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    I feel like invisible man here :rolleyes:
     
    #14 Roman, Mar 19, 2005
  15. fishface

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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    hahahahah....hehehe...I SEE yoooouuuuu!! :p
     
    #15 fishface, Mar 19, 2005
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    Yes.

    Onyx has plenty of iron so no Flourite is needed. It would look bad also.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #16 Tom Barr, Mar 19, 2005
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Break it down again Tom!

    You might try a hydroponic's supplier for the leonardite.
    I've found it much cheaper in 10lb bags.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #17 Tom Barr, Mar 19, 2005
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