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Body fungus?

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Tug, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    A week after I got this guppy from the LFS - it has developed what looks like a rug burn. I know it is hard to diagnose a problem from a photograph. But, any help would be appreciated. I keep the guppies in a brackish water tank with three gobbies - never had this problem until now. None of the other fish seam affected. Could she have tangled with one of the gobies and the fugus was due to an open wound? 10 gallon tank, heavily planted, counting her there are three guppies (one male), three gobies, RCS

    Quarantine, Check.
    And for now I am treating with Maracyn. It does seam to help fight the fungus but the raw skin is still visible. I could use some help treating it. She is active in every respect other then the body fungus and raw patch of skin. I am also thinking about using methylene Blue just before she goes back into the tank with the other fish, but am not sure if that would help any.
     
  2. deucebiggss

    deucebiggss Guru Class Expert

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    Not to be rude, but wouldn't it be cheaper to flush the guppie and buy a new one?
     
  3. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi deucebiggss,
    Did your yellow water clear up? If it was just about saving a guppy I suppose I might not care. If it ends up because I didn't place her in quarantine soon enough (yea, I should have done it in the first place) and it spreads to the gobies then it would be good to know what can be done. I would much rather find out in any case. Any way it looks as if it could be Flexibacter. I'll treat for it and Aeromonas accordingly. http://www.flippersandfins.net/Flexibacter.htm
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Quarantine, Sterilize or Sanitize

    Hi Tug,

    I think you are rather lucky this is why we quarantine. ;)

    Based on the photo it looks more like an injury, “rug burn” is a good call. Did you see “white fuzz?”

    If you have not already done so, I would add salt to the quarantine tank, say two teaspoons for every 10-gallons. There is no need for Methyl blue if you are using a broad-spectrum antibiotic, keep using it once started for at least 10 days.

    My guess is that as long as the other fish are not injured there really are not going to be additional problems. However, major water change, clean filters and things would not be a bad idea.

    Good luck,
    Biollante
     
  5. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Harum-scarum

    Hi Biollante,
    Thank you for your reply. I've been in denial (some call it being lucky) most of my life. You would think after the dragonfly naiad infestation I would have learned a few weeks quarantine and sanitation sanity. This new event should bring me to my senses. If nothing else I'm adding a few other first aid necessities, besides Maracyn. Some Maracyn II for starters. I've also ordered some Seachem ParaGuard and Kanaplex, Kent Rx P Parasite Treatment and Potassium Permanganate. I'm not sure if the Kent product is any good but thought I might get some while I was in the mood.
     
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Flavobacterium columnare

    Hi Tug,

    Most of us learn things the hard way; I learned the lesson then had to relearn it, kind of like being held back a year. :eek: The eighth-grade was the best five years of my life! :)


    Based on what you described, assuming you saw “white fuzz” on the critter. The condition known as Columnaris, your conclusion regarding the bad-guy is probably correct, though archaically named, the “modern” name is Flavobacterium columnare, and as with most bad-guy, bacterium is Gram-negative. Since it is, Gram-negative Erythromycin (Maracyn) should work. Though the preferred (I think) medication is food containing Oxytetracycline, as long as the fish is still eating. :gw


    The real danger is Columnaris in the gills; this is where the fish exhibits rapid and usually distressed breathing. The gills will appear brown or light brown; you may observe the “white fuzz” on or in the gills. If you sedate and look closely you will probably observe dead (necrotic) gill tissue.

    Flavobacterium columnare is an “ambush” or opportunistic bug, meaning it only strikes damaged or weakened fish. It is a true scourge of the aquaculture community. High bio-loads, jostling, handling, poor water conditions and so forth are where this little nasty strikes. :(


    The reason quarantine is so effective is that most of our critters face, most of the aforementioned conditions on their way to us. A couple of weeks in a nice clean well aerated Sterilite container, stuck out of the traffic pattern and not having to fend for itself in a new environment with established residents can make all the difference. ;)


    Quarantine is so effective that after years of not seeing a sick fish, it is easy to become complacent. The reality is that the illnesses and injuries were cured, the wounds healed by that short time out. :)


    Many who admit not quarantining will insist that it has never made a difference, I challenge people to look at their receipts and account for your fish, most folks have what I would consider an alarming mortality rate, especially within the first month of ownership.

    Quarantine/hospital tank is equally effective for current inmates, an injured fish or even one that is just out of sorts are often revived with a little “time-out.”


    Having said all of this, you really can over do the medicating. Having a little malachite green, methylene blue and Potassium Permanganate on hand is a good idea.

    I use Nitrofuracin Green for all fish I ship and sometimes in quarantine, especially for wild caught fish that have not spent much time with someone I trust. By the way I quarantine everybody, I even quarantine moving fish from one area to the other. :gw

    Good luck (and quarantine),
    Biollante
     
    #6 Biollante, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2010
  7. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi Biollante,
    I was also thinking some API MelaFix, (tea tree oil) might be nice to have around. As for food containing Oxytetracycline, I would get some if I knew of any recommended brands. There seam to be a lot out there for treating koi and goldfish. Also, there is Debride Medicated Ointment, but it also seams to be for koi and I'm not sure if koi medications harm tropical fish.

    Guppy seams to be responding to treatment. The white fuzz was not bad, if I even saw some. I just thought I should err on the side of caution.

    Funny how one little thing kept me from setting up a quarantine tank. I don't know if I need to cycle it ahead of time or if regular water changes take care of any problems. Is it as easy as add water, dechlorinator and a bubbler?
     
  8. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    It can be. Some meds will nuke any filter you put in there, but those meds often suggest replacing water fairly often, so not much builds up.

    If you need a fast one, keep a sponge in the water flow somewhere like a sump. Then pull it out and add it to the QT. Instant cycled filter. You'll also get an idea if something in your display tank is going to cause problems with your new fish since the sponge will likely transfer anything nasty in the big tank to the QT. When you're ready, pop a couple fish from the big tank in the QT and if all is good you can put them all in the big tank. ( last step is important ) -> There's nothing worse than having healthy QTd fish that are immune to something bringing that into the main tank and having all of the other inhabitants nailed by it.

    -
    S


     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Nothing Special

    Hi Tug,

    A quarantine or hospital tank need not be anything special. :)

    I like cheap Sterilite tubs, they store well, are available in various sizes, did I mention they are cheap?

    I have used jars, the quart and half-gallon Mason Jars work well for small fish. :)

    I use aquarium water; because I am fussy, I generally filter the water through a coffee filter, then through a charcoal filter. For a single small fish such as your guppy I might not bother with aeration or filtration.

    I agree shoggoth43* of the Cthulhu Mythos that keeping a sponge filter going somewhere is the easiest. I am not a fan of hang-on-back filters, but I keep some going in sumps and out–of-the-way places these are great for plopping on to a Sterilite tub and a sponge filter can be placed over the intake quite easily.

    A small air pump and air stone are handy as well. A small inexpensive aquarium heater is a good idea and a heating pad is handy.
    :D
    Remember that sometimes the critters going into quarantine or hospital tank may not be at all well. So fast flow or disturb water may be undesirable. A heater may have to be place in a jar within the tub or a heating pad under the tub or jar to avoid harming the patient. ;)

    When it comes to aeration do not underestimate the effectiveness of stirring the water a couple of times a day, or daily water changes, or just blowing through a straw, (better yet a tube attached to an air stone). :gw

    Your tub a useful storage place for a couple of small containers, Alka Seltzer packets, drugs, heater air pump filters and so forth. :cool:

    Biollante
    * It was a terrible, indescribable thing vaster than any subway train – a shapeless congeries of protoplasmic bubbles, faintly self-luminous, and with myriads of temporary eyes forming and un-forming as pustules of greenish light all over the tunnel-filling front that bore down upon us, crushing the frantic penguins and slithering over the glistening floor that it and its kind had swept so evilly free of all litter. — H. P. Lovecraft, At The Mountains of Madness
     
  10. deucebiggss

    deucebiggss Guru Class Expert

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    I have used API fungus cure with Melafix and had really good luck in the past. And my yellow water is better, but it is still there and I am pretty sure it is from the drift wood. I will have some pictures up in a bit.
     
  11. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    How well do the sterilite tubs hold up? I can get the 20L ones pretty cheap but there's sometimes much larger ones available on the cheap as well. They don't look like they'd hold the full amount of water without bowing outward a bit and I'm not sure how stable they'll be over time, not to mention potential failure on that wouldn't be fun. I got a few for this but haven't put them in use yet because of it.

    Anyone using them longterm? Say 6 months or so and what size are you using?

    -
    S
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Quantity Has A Quality All Its Own

    Hi S, All,

    While I do not recommend using the Sterilite containers long term and quarantine/hospital tanks should be broken down and thoroughly cleaned after each use. :)

    I had an indoor pond (soft sided thing about 45 gallons (170 liter)) that sprung a leak and I used a 58 quart (55 liter) Sterilite Tub to save the plants, a good part of the substrate, keep the filter going and hold some critters.

    I ended up running up it for over a year with various things out on a porch with some sun part of the year. It is still sitting in a corner, dry with eight inches of old substrate and some other pieces and parts inside.

    The downside to the containers is the lack of UV resistance. A half dozen or so outside holding various plants and I think water for birds and rabbits last a year or so.

    I have various sizes in what passes for a greenhouse growing out various plants and critters, a fair number have been going for at least six months. :)

    Wal-Mart has great sales on various sizes quite often. ;)

    I have found the 58-quart (55-liter) size about the largest that is strong enough to hold water, essentially full without becoming unstable. Over 58-quart, I recommend Rubbermaid. :)

    Rubbermaid are better quality than Sterilite containers, but for the price you can get a lot more Sterilite containers and as Stalin reputedly said, “quantity has a quality all its own.” :cool:

    The LoudCreatureWhatSharesMySpace and TheThingWhatSpawnedTheLoudCreature have put together an amazing Bladderwort garden in a 28-quart (27-liter) Sterilite container, they “found” a woven basket to set it in, I put a small pump in to keep the water circulating and a few fish, it is amazing. Since Bladderworts are essentially annuals, the tub thing should work well. :gw

    Biollante
     
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