BGA and some pesky GDA

[Paul G]

Yeah, Tom, every three or four months I do this more or less effortless procedure which drives it out of existence. It stays gone for a long while, then, when it appears again, it grows back quite quickly. Still, it always yields to the EM/blackout. I will continue the preventative measures and sharpen my skills to stretch that interval. Perhaps someday, when I get it right, it will never come back.

You are suggesting here that the K and NO3 doses should be increased for the blackout duration - how much "more" do you mean?. Do you have target ppm concentrations in mind?

 

[ShadowMac]

Blackouts do work well, but only if the root issue is addressed. Water changes, a good cleaning, replanting etc, then KNO3 dosing more/during the blackout.
EM is pretty much a sure thing also, but like BO's, it does not address the long tern root cause.

I get a touch of BGA on the bottom of the sediment below where the fish and shrimp can attack it against the glass. This is due to light from the windows and ADA AS which is depleted in N.
I just use a scraper and it'll be gone for 1-2 months.

Never goes anywhere else.

This in general has been my only experience with BGA previously. It was completely my fault that it set in on the monte carlo. The holding tank had about 4 days of issues before I noticed. I was in a hurry to get the tank planted and did not take the usual steps like a brief KMnO4 bath to help in instances like this.

The tank with similar setup did not have a bit of BGA. I suspect it became a problem because the plants were seeded with it and then placed in a new tank with high light. I'm hoping once I get some good growth going that the problem will resolve itself. In the mean time I have to try and keep the BGA at bay.

The GDA isn't an overwhelming issue, just annoying. Weekly glass cleaning keeps it in order. I've noticed some accumulation on lower leaves. Not sure if its GDA or some type of greenish diatom. It brushes off easily. I'm hoping once I add shrimp they will eat it.

The UV isn't intended to take care of algae attached to the glass, plants, or stones. I want it to kill free floating particles/algae after the extensive cleaning I just did. I do not run UV normally on my tanks, but since I have the UV I might as well put it to some use in instances like this. It cannot hurt ( unless I'm denaturing the EM, so it won't run during the EM treatment).

This is my first time using the EM to attack BGA. I've used a blackout in the past and it has been effective. Honestly it has been a while since I've had any serious algae problems. My dosing on the tank needs to be improved, it has been neglected in those regards.

We will see if I can make up for my mistakes.

 

[Tom Barr]

Yeah, Tom, every three or four months I do this more or less effortless procedure which drives it out of existence. It stays gone for a long while, then, when it appears again, it grows back quite quickly. Still, it always yields to the EM/blackout. I will continue the preventative measures and sharpen my skills to stretch that interval. Perhaps someday, when I get it right, it will never come back.

You are suggesting here that the K and NO3 doses should be increased for the blackout duration - how much "more" do you mean?. Do you have target ppm concentrations in mind?

KNO3, standard EI should do it fine.

 

[Tom Barr]

Yeah, Tom, every three or four months I do this more or less effortless procedure which drives it out of existence. It stays gone for a long while, then, when it appears again, it grows back quite quickly. Still, it always yields to the EM/blackout. I will continue the preventative measures and sharpen my skills to stretch that interval. Perhaps someday, when I get it right, it will never come back.

You are suggesting here that the K and NO3 doses should be increased for the blackout duration - how much "more" do you mean?. Do you have target ppm concentrations in mind?

KNO3, standard EI should do it fine.

 

[Tom Barr]

Have you tried adding some plecos to take care of the mild GDA?

 

[gsjmia]

Paul G, I don't have much consistency or theory. I do it because I hate snails and had a real bad infestation with fresh water limpets. I don't think you can stop algae this way (it can be airborne)

I usually just open the bottle and sprinkle (about a thimble full) into a gallon bucket and add water until it is just past deep purple and getting dark pink.

I used to try to visually inspect, but the infestation has to be pretty bad in order to spot all hitchikers. A lot of times you will see a small animal walking on the bag, but I think its impossible to visually inspect with any certainty.

I just automatically soak in PM. Alum will also work but you have to use a lot (about 2 oz per gallon) and is hard to find in supermarket nowdays (Its used for pickling-remember it used to make people pucker in the cartoons?). PM is easier and cheaper. After PM soak, rinse until clean and then I fill bucket with fresh water and then add enough declor for about 5 X the water that is in the bucket.

I got outsmarted by some snails one time after a PM soak because I didn't soak long enough-must have been eggs. Now I soak for about 30 minutes or until the lower, older or weak leaves start to look damaged.

I have never killed anything but came close-I got some Monte Carlo from Tom. I soaked it but forgot about it and let it soak for about 2 hours. All the leaves were melted and all that was left was a million little 1/8th to 1/4 stems fragments. I put it in between 2 pieces of aluminum window screen and threw into the tank. About a month later it took off and I now have a nice carpet.

In my early days when some plants would get a lot of BGA (Java Fern), I would periodically uproot, trim, soak in PM and then replant.

 

[ShadowMac]

Have you tried adding some plecos to take care of the mild GDA?

I hadn't reached the point where I felt comfortable adding livestock. I can probably do so this next week. Would a 30 cm cube be large enough?

 

[Matt F.]

Sorry it took me so long to find this and to respond. I was able to control the reproduction of GDA in my tank, but I would hardly claim victory over it. frequent maintenance and blackouts worked best. Glutaraldehyde/Excel had no effect on it.The one thing that was NOT useful for GDA was a UV device--at least the model I used. But UV is effective for green water algae. GDA reportedly had a free floating stage, too. Why would UV not have an effect on this part of the lifecycle? IDK.

My only reasoning for a double course of EM/Maracyn therapy is to prevent a proliferation of a super stain of BGA that is resistant to erythromycin. You use antibiotics enough, the effectiveness is reduces. We see this in all cases. The single course of treatment leaves only the strongest bacterial cells, etc. Those go on to grow despite a single course of treatment, and we're dealing with a resistant strain... IME, I have had no ill effect from this. My plants, shrimp, fish, and biofilter has made it through intact. But do what you are comfortable with.

regardless, we are treating the symptoms and not the problem (or cause) BGA and GDA. Knowing more about the lifecycle of these organisms can help us understand how to control them.

I've gone 4-5 days without CO2 and light. Plants are okay. Any more than a week or two, and you start to see problems.

Matt F;

In my experience, the plants do not mind the 48 hour blackout, and in fact, the Anubiases in particular seem to be stimulated into new growth by it. I am a great respecter of the biofilter biome, which is probably a lot more complex a community than is sometimes fully appreciated, so am very reluctant to use "repeat" doses of any antibiotic. Antibiotics are, in principle, anethema to ecosystems, taken as a whole.

I attempted in December of 2012 to kill off an incipient BGA infestation with two successive EM treatments without blackout. The results were questionable, as the kill was not total and the Cyanobac made a rapid comeback. Blackouts work better for me, especially with one hit of EM at the start.

I agree that UV is not indicated for BGA or algae generally, as it cannot hit the sessile cells. This is why I do not regard it as my "first line of defense". It will destroy individual free-floaters, spores, etc. and is useful for other reasons, so employing it can do no harm.

I suspect UV destroys EM.

I know you have recently come from a long bout with GDA and know whereof you speak in regards to that. I presume you came out the victor.

Regards,

Paul G

 

[Tom Barr]

Matt, GDA zoospores once wiped off, will quickly REATTACH. As in minutes etc. So by the time you wipe them, they have settle somewhere else already.
So UV has little impact. No more than any other epiphytic algae.

Baby bushy nose have had the best and the quickest effect for GDA I've seen to date.
3 tanks, no returns and the tanks have upped their light to about where my 180 is at, 80-100 umols on the sediment.

Prior, I was at 40-50 umol and still had issues.

So if I can double the light and not have any issues, I did adjust CO2 up also, I think it's a pretty good method.
But no matter what method you suggest, someone will always have an issue with it.
Still, I've offered several ways to kill each algae that bothers us, found their latin names and offered several test to rule out various causes.
We need many little hammers to beat algae, not one big one.

Good general care is always the key.

 

[Tom Barr]

Matt, GDA zoospores once wiped off, will quickly REATTACH. As in minutes etc. So by the time you wipe them, they have settle somewhere else already.
So UV has little impact. No more than any other epiphytic algae.

Baby bushy nose have had the best and the quickest effect for GDA I've seen to date.
3 tanks, no returns and the tanks have upped their light to about where my 180 is at, 80-100 umols on the sediment.

Prior, I was at 40-50 umol and still had issues.

So if I can double the light and not have any issues, I did adjust CO2 up also, I think it's a pretty good method.
But no matter what method you suggest, someone will always have an issue with it.
Still, I've offered several ways to kill each algae that bothers us, found their latin names and offered several test to rule out various causes.
We need many little hammers to beat algae, not one big one.

Good general care is always the key.

 

[Matt F.]

That makes sense. Just confirms that UV for GDA is a waste of time. As long as I stayed course with two water changes a week, the GDA was controllable. It got to the point where I was down to one water change a week and things were looking good. One skipped water change week and the GDA would come back in full force. I tore that tank down and rescaped. I washed the cleaned tank out with glut prior to refilling with fresh aqua soil. we'll see if it comes back. My tanks don't seem to have problems with BGA, though. The first tank I set up did have BGA after the Amazonia aqua soil was depleted of N (4-6 weeks in).

I'm going to invest in a bunch of the BN plecos should the GDA come back in this tank.

Matt, GDA zoospores once wiped off, will quickly REATTACH. As in minutes etc. So by the time you wipe them, they have settle somewhere else already.
So UV has little impact. No more than any other epiphytic algae.

Baby bushy nose have had the best and the quickest effect for GDA I've seen to date.
3 tanks, no returns and the tanks have upped their light to about where my 180 is at, 80-100 umols on the sediment.

Prior, I was at 40-50 umol and still had issues.

So if I can double the light and not have any issues, I did adjust CO2 up also, I think it's a pretty good method.
But no matter what method you suggest, someone will always have an issue with it.
Still, I've offered several ways to kill each algae that bothers us, found their latin names and offered several test to rule out various causes.
We need many little hammers to beat algae, not one big one.

Good general care is always the key.