BGA again :-(

Hi tom,

I followed more or less what you told me to do (basically more PO4), but now I end up again with BGA,…L

Let’s summarize what I did.

I did two weeks ago a two times 80% water exchange to reset my tank and added 2 mg/l PO4 and 20 mg/l NO3. And then the following regime: 0.6 mg/l PO4 every day and 2.5 mg/l NO3 every day. In the weekend, I do a “normal” water exchange of 50% and add 1 mg/l PO4 and 10 mg/l NO3 back.

This means that per week, I add 5.2 mg/l PO4 and 27.5 mg/l NO3. a PO4:NO3 ratio of 1:5.2 . Not too bad I would say since you suggest in the e.i. articles a KNO3:H2KPO4 ratio of 1:4.

However, this is now the second times that after increasing the level of PO4, I get BGA. I know that you state again and again that PO4 does not trigger BGA, but clearly, in my tank, something triggered the BGA. Can you make a suggestion what caused the BGA to grow?

According to my fotospectrometer (calibrated it well), I have around the 2 mg/l PO4 in the tank during the week. The level is raising a bit during the week but not to much. After the 50% water exchange I measure 50% of the original amount PO4 and when I add 1 mg/l PO4 back in the tank, I measure indeed 1 mg/l extra. So, I would say that the PO4 measurements are pretty accurate. And therefore I think I can make the statement that my PO4 level is around the 2 mg/l/. Not too much I would say. And when you look at the added NO3O4 ratio, it is also not absurd. So again: WHY do I get BGA????

I am getting tired of this BGA. Last time I had to do 2 blackouts and large H2O2 treatments to get rid of it. And that resulted in the loss of several species, especially the potamogeton sp. Now, I have only 1-2 stems left and I am not waiting for more plant damaging treatments to get rid of the BGA.

A very unhappy Yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

oke, tom, I will clean my filter.

I cleaned my filter last month. maybe I should do that more often.
I must say that I my tank is much more cleaner since I dose more PO4 and NO3. No mulm and dirt is collecting at the bottom. But since you mentioned a high organic load, I must confess that I have an 2 year old substrate, that contains peat. Once, it was nicely on the bottom, but now I can clearly see some peat lying on top of the bottom. Could this cause a high organic load?

In the tank, I have only 20 barbus pentazona, so the fishload is not extremely high.

The BGA is not spread very far. It is now only in the growing tips in the rotala wallichi. BGA never grows in my tank on the bottom.

If you think that the old peat is causing the BGA starting to grow, do you suggest to completely change the bottom. (I want sand as substrate anyway, so it would be a good excuse to change the substrate)

by the, way, in holland we do have acces to antibiotics...

thanks,

yme

ps: I think I increase my No3 from 2.5 mg/l evry day to 3.5 mg/l every day?

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi tom,

i made a mistake in my second post. i meant that we don't have access to antibiotics.

as for the substrate, I never have heard of anyone in the netherlands that has ada products. I don't know where to get it. The alternative is a mixture of loam and red clay. I could get those.

But do I really need to change the substrate or can I manage with just a good disturbing? Is the peat causing the trouble? or is it just the low NO3 levels? (although i can't imagine that my NO3 is too low with the amount added).

I just want to never have BGA again!

greets,

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi tom,

I just found a bit of BGA. For the moment, I cleaned the plants and there is no BGA visible. So I hope that I can keep it in control by adding more KNO3.

If you think that my can get rid of the BGA without another substrate, I will just clean everything good.

I am planning to buy a house this summer, so I will have to move the aquarium, or buy another (bigger!) tank. So I think I will not buy the ada substrate for the moment.

I checked adaeuro.com, but the only dealers I could find were in Italy. I think that aquaessentials is better for purchasing the products. At least they accept paypal.

For the future, It may be usefull to know exactly which product you are referring to as "ada substrate". I can´t find that poduct. Is it ada multi bottom, powersand or something else? (almost ashamed to ask this...)

thank you very much again!!!

(sort of) ps: I increased the flourish and flourish iron dose to 8 ml of each EVERY day. That was around the same time when I started to increase the PO4 levels. The effect on the plant growth is quite good. but isn´t it a bit much fertilizer for 150 liters?

@achown:
Thanks! If the bga really starts to grow in my tank I will order it (and may use it if tom says it is oke). Do you by the way know whether species like elatine tiandra, potamogeton gayi, heternanthera zosterifolia and tonina fluviatilis can handle this treatment? (because I destroyed most of it during my last H2O2 treatment.....)

greets,

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi tom, thank you very much for the answers!

It is (I think) exactly like you told me: bottoming out of NO3.
How do I know? (or think I know):

the last two weeks my PO4 level was, after waterchange and adding back PO4 , around the 1.8. this gradually increased during the week up to 2.5 mg/l 7 days later. Last wednesday, I measured my PO4 levels and it was around the 2.1 mg/l. Yesterday, I added 20 mg/l NO3 because of the BGA. This morning, I measured my PO4 levels again: 1.0 mg/l PO4! an O/N drop in PO4 of 1 point!!! This indicates, I think, that my NO3 levels were indeed too low. I need to add more.....

but honoustly, how much do my mutated ill tempered plants need to satisfy their need for no3/Po4??? Because i'm from holland, most people dose around the 0.5 mg/l PO4 per WEEK and 5 mg/l NO3 per WEEK. So maybe you can imagine how amazed I am that my 5.2 mg/l PO4 per week and 28 mg/l NO3 per week is still not enough for stable levels. I am still shocked!



Together, I don't think I will need to change my substrate, but I'll contact you again when (or if) I have a new tank and still not have found a dealer of ADA in Holland.

thanks!

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

i agree! after reading lots and lots of posts, it is simply not feassable to check every ratio, level or interacting between different nutrients. Just add enough of everything. look at the algae like you suggest and draw conclusions.

the only thing thing that I would like to know is whether it is possible to have too much nutrients in the water. for instance, I am now planning to dose 4 mg/l NO3 pe day. This is based on another post of you in which you state that the maximun amount of NO3 uptake rate is generally 3-4 mg/l/day. So dosing 4 mg/l/day would solve any NO3 deficiency issues. So than I would dose 10 mg/l after a waterchange straight away and every day 4 mg/l. this is 38 mg/l every day. But what if, for any reason at all, my uptake rate will go to 2 mg/l/day. than there is a leftover No3 level of 24 mg/l/week (not really taking the 10 mg/l after the waterchange in account). This would lead to a maximum level of 2*24=48 mg/l. So taken togeter: could a level of 50 mg/l NO3 (or any level that is above the 30 mg/l) cause problems in the tank? And what are the symptoms?

greets,

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

thanks tom!

this is great advice. you made me confident that even these high levels do no cause issues. And since I have quite a few shrimps in the tank, I can monitor them. Great bioindicators!

maybe larger waterchanges is an option. I have to look whether my old RO machine can handle it. (10 liters takes 8 hours...) and I will have to find a bigger bucket for storage of the water.

greets,

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi tom!

I deed an 80 liter waterchange, cleaned my filter and vacuumed the gravel. underneath the blyxa field it was indeed dirty as was the filter. So I hope that this, together with good KNO3 dosing, will free me of the BGA. So far, I haven´t seen it!

The health in my tank is getting better *being optimistic*
I got a few old stems of blyxa spec vietnam and yesterday I saw for the first time new growth. I also got a few emers stems of hygrophila balsamica and so far I am the only one (out of four) that submers growth. Also the elatine tiandra and potamogeton species are doing fine.

but..... (since I am posting a reply anyway)
The tonina fluviatilis is still melting. A couple of leaves under the growing tip, at the tip of a leaf turns brown. this browning spreads togwards the stem and spreads into other leaves, mostly towards the growing tip. So now there are some stems that have a grwowing tip that is brown in the middle, but the very outer parts are still green. but of course, tomorrow the outer parts are brown as well and subsequently decay. Does this pattern sound familiar?

I have only a couple of stems left. so action has to be taken in order not to loose it!
The only thing that I can think of is a high KH, GH (like you implied in a previous post). If I give you info about my tap water could you please tell me whether I hould use more osmosis water?

I get my water from two stations:
station 1: KH minimum 132 ppm, KH average: 160, KH maximum: 188 pm. GH 8.4 (pretty consistant). Mg: 9-11 ppm
station 2: KH minmum: 174 ppm, KH average: 183 ppm, KH maximum: 197 ppm. GH 8.4 (pretty consistant). Mg: 6 ppm (consistant)

I dilute the tapwater 50-50 with RO water. and I add 4 mg/l Ca and 3 mg/l Mg after a waterchange to avoid Ca/Mg deficiencies.

My testkits measure: KH: 4, GH:7. Oke, I know they are not accurate. And I know that you can grow tonina fluviatilis in KH3, GH 5.

Together: Is my KH, Ca, Mg too high? should I increase the percentage of RO water per waterchange? Or does this possibly induces Mg/Ca related deficiencies in other plants that are now growing fine? Or is the melting of the tonina not KH/GH related at all?

thanks!

yme

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi tom,

I will change my water exchange regime: 50 liters of RO water and 30 liters of tapwater. this mix would give me a KH between the 2.2-3.3, with an average of 2.7-3.1. I will add Ca to get a level of at least 20 mg/l and Mg to a level of 5 mg/l.

greets,

yme

ps: I just measured my conductivity. it was 700. it used to be around the 400. the increase is likely due to the increased dosing of flourish, flourish iron, kno3, po4. do tonina dislike this (high) conductivity?

 

Re: BGA again :-(

hi Tom,

That is very interesting, the statement about the conductivity. The NBAT even mentions on her website that for a normal community tank the conductivity should not be above 500. So if you say that the conductivity is of very minor importance even for the soft water species, I must say I learned again!!

And sorry for bothering you again, but I have again a question. (If I annoy you, you should say so, I can imagine that I post to much questions)

I am noticing that the new leaves of my proserpinaca palustris are coloured more red than 2 weeks ago when I did the lare waterexchange and added 20 mg/l NO3 back. The leaves are not as red as my previous picture of the new leaves (about the small new leaves), but they are significantly redder than before. I can not tell you whether the new growth has smaller leaves. Therefore it is too early. But since you were able to tell from a picture that a was low in NO3 (because of the small, red leaves) I was wondering whether you could tell me if a run again low in NO3. (and BGA again...).

As I might know I now add 4 mg/l NO3 and 10 mg/l after a waterchange. I estimate that my PO4 uptake is around 0.6-0.8 mg/l per y. So if you multiply 0.8 times 4 (from the ratio of the e.i.) you get 3.2 mg/l NO3. And I add 4 mg/l NO3 per day. So theoretically I couldn´t run low in NO3. But as you say again and again: plants don´t lie! So what would be the wise thing to do???

Thanks again!

yme