BeanAnimal Overflow

[mike]

Hi Everyone,

Here is a video of my BeanAnimal overflow. As many have said here, we learn by sharing.

I really like this overflow and sump. It's quiet, fail safe and can handle up do 2000 GPH.

I have broken up the video into 5 parts

1. The Internal Overflow
2. The External Overflow
3. The Sump
4. The Returns
5. Demonstrate stopping and starting the pumps

Hope you enjoy.

[video=youtube_share;Y38tFbCwfhc]http://youtu.be/Y38tFbCwfhc[/video]

Mike

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Mike,

Great job! Thanks much for posting this and taking the time to produce the video in the first place. This will help many folk I am sure.

 

[Tom Barr]

Thanks Mike, glad you put 15 minutes of video instruction, they really are fairly simple, but very unclear to many folks.

 

[thegasman]

Nice work here Mike. I've read about this, but your video makes things more clear for folks like myself. Now if I only had your DIY skills! Well done.

 

[shoggoth43]

Out of curiosity, where did you put your valve on the main line and what kind did you use?

-
S

 

[mike]

Hi S,

I used a gate valve on the main full syphon drain. You need it on the main drain in order to adjust the flow to match the amount being supplied by the pump. In my case my pump is suppling between 1400 and 1500GPH. Since the full drain can handle about 2000gph I have to close the gate valve a little in order to match the pumps.

Mike

 

[shoggoth43]

I noticed how high the water got when you started your pump before it settled down. I was curious where your valve was as I had similar issues with the herbie I'm using.

I found this behavior was less of an issue with the valve at the bottom of the pipe in the sump. However my current setup is more of a vertical standpipe and doesn't use the down turned 90 or T fitting so that may help purge the air faster. My main line is basically the bulkhead fitting without any standpipe. I'm probably only throwing 700 GPH at best so this may also be a factor with my 1 inch lines. Unless the weir gets clogged teeth or there's an obstruction, my emergency pipe never sees any water flowing through it though.

I'm looking to redo the overflow on my 125 so I have a few more questions if you don't mind. It looks like your tank was originally drilled for 1-1.5 inch bulkheads. Was there any reason why you have the holes at mid overflow level vs down near the bottom of the overflow? What kind of a drop over the internal box do you have? It looks like a couple of inches. Also, did you make any calculations on the overflow box length or did you just pick a length and then get a pump big enough to put enough water over the full 4 foot length? How "deep" is the water flowing over the weir?

-
S

 

[Tom Barr]

Mike , since you are okay with DIY, you can make improvements, if you so chose.

1. Prefilter. A sponge prefilter can be added at the prefilter over flow stage, you'd need to provide enough room and likely invert the drain pipes.
2. Sponge block in place of lava. Generally 20 ppi is good for planted tanks. Lava does not clog really, sponge will eventually(months).
3. Bag filters can be used by need cleaned often. Good for polishing if you disturb things. They make the poly nets that are pretty fine, say 300 micron, these can be used or the felt larger micron ratings.
The trick there is similar to the overflow. You put them just above the water level in the 1st stage of the sump. This produces minimal splashing, it also produces minimal head pressure, so a small amount of blockage in the bag filter causes more by pass.
Setting up a stand to hold the bag filters are the right height for each pipe is key. Generally a stand from the bottom coming up with adjustable legs to match the height of the water level is a good idea, the top is often eggcrate notched out to support the bag filter ring size.
Most of the mech filtration will clog and back up the flow in the sump, as long as the glass slats are a little lower than the sump, then the water can by pass if you forget to clean.
4. Needle wheel and then post reactor, then back to the return pump might also help. If the CO2 is dialed in, this might not be worthwhile, but might be. Worth a try.

 

[scottward]

Great video - thanks Mike! I'm looking at converting to a Bean Animal style overflow sometime in the future.

 

[mike]

Hi S,

I'll try as best I can to answer your questions.

I noticed how high the water got when you started your pump before it settled down. I was curious where your valve was as I had similar issues with the herbie I'm using.

I had the same issue you mentioned. I did 2 weeks worth of leak tests and stopping and starting the pump and I did have problems with water going over to top of the external overflow. After doing some research I found out that the main drain has to be not more then 1.5 to 2 inches below the high water line, in my case that is where I have the black tape. I was told that if the main drain is too deep in the sump then there is too much pressure for the syphon to be created. When you look at the sump section of the video you'll see the drain on the right, the main drain, is higher up in the sump that the backup drain, the one on the left. Another way to avoid this problem is to start with a 1 inch bulkhead then right after to bulk head, and before the gate valve, you enlarge to 1.5 inch pvc, which is something I plan on doing eventually.

It looks like your tank was originally drilled for 1-1.5 inch bulkheads. Was there any reason why you have the holes at mid overflow level vs down near the bottom of the overflow?

Those are 1.75 inch holes, for a 1 inch bulkhead. all I had was a 1.75 inch drill bit. The center of the holes are 3.5 inches from the rim of the tank, which puts them in the upper 1/3 of the weir. My thinking here was that the higher the holes the high the water level in the weir so less of a drop for the water. I also figured that if there was too much flow through the holes it would be easier to silicone some glass to block the lower 1/2 or 1/3 of the holes.

What kind of a drop over the internal box do you have? It looks like a couple of inches.

The internal weir is 6 inches deep and the drop from the top of the weir to the top if the water is a little less than 2 inches. I could have made the internal weir 4 inches deep.

Also, did you make any calculations on the overflow box length or did you just pick a length and then get a pump big enough to put enough water over the full 4 foot length?

No calculations, just logic and lots of reading. My thinking was it didn't matter too much how much flow I had, the water would flow over the top regardless, and if I put the holes high enough in the internal overflow then there would be less of a drop. I chose a longer overflow because I wanted a nice even skim off the surface. During my leak testing I also ran a pump that was only 400gph. There was more of a drop to the water, I would have to say close to 3 inches but with both drains deep in the sump I never had a problem starting the full syphon. The full syphon is a problem when you have high flow pumps.

How "deep" is the water flowing over the weir?

there's about 1/4 of an inch flowing over the top of the weir.


All that said. There are a few things I would do different with this project.

1. I would use a 1.5 inch drain after the 1 inch bulkhead. this would increase the flow and result in a better startup of the full syphon.
2. I would make the internal weir about 4 to 5 inches deep rather than 6.
3. I would make the external overflow deeper. Right now it's 6 inches but I want to raise the backup drain but I have no room. I would make it 8 inches deep.

Hope this helps

Mike

 

[mike]

Hi Tom, thank you for the feedback.

1. Prefilter. A sponge prefilter can be added at the prefilter over flow stage, you'd need to provide enough room and likely invert the drain pipes.

Maybe I don't understand how the upturned drains work but with all my research I did I found the up turned pipes were harder to tweek and provided lower flow because you have to reduce the flow to make them quiet.

2. Sponge block in place of lava. Generally 20 ppi is good for planted tanks. Lava does not clog really, sponge will eventually(months).

Do you suggest this because the 20ppi sponge provides better biological filtration than the lava rock? I was thinking of replacing the coarse filter pad in the drain section of the sump with a 20ppi pad. Also, the pumps have a 20ppi sponge over the intakes.

3. Bag filters can be used by need cleaned often. Good for polishing if you disturb things. They make the poly nets that are pretty fine, say 300 micron, these can be used or the felt larger micron ratings.

I was thinking of doing this but I often have shrimp and small fish go down the drain. I would have to check that bag very day, which may not be easy. I have a fluval FX5 for the polishing. I was also thinking of getting a Hot Mag to hang on the back when I neen some extra polishing.

4. Needle wheel and then post reactor, then back to the return pump might also help. If the CO2 is dialed in, this might not be worthwhile, but might be. Worth a try.

I've been following Gerry's Cerges reactor build and may add one in the configuration you mention. As it stands I have the co2 going into a mag 9.5 with needle wheel that that is leaning on the foam pad of the mag 1800 back to the tank. there is more mist than I want so I'll start looking at the Cerges reactor.


Mike

 

[shoggoth43]

I'll likely do the 4 inch internal box then. The water depth in my outside box is roughly 6 inches or so so I might use a slightly deeper box on the outside. I get the feeling that the bean overflow was designed around shallower water depths in the overflow boxes whereas the herbie seems best with a few inches to play with. I think either way I will look into making the outside box as small as possible to keep the amount of water in transit to a minimum. Currently I only have a 20 gallon long for a sump so there's not a lot of room in there.

Thanks for your answers. Now I have to figure out the filter bag idea or just use foam blocks for pre filters instead which may be simpler.

-
S

 

[Tom Barr]

Hi Tom, thank you for the feedback.



Maybe I don't understand how the upturned drains work but with all my research I did I found the up turned pipes were harder to tweek and provided lower flow because you have to reduce the flow to make them quiet.



Do you suggest this because the 20ppi sponge provides better biological filtration than the lava rock? I was thinking of replacing the coarse filter pad in the drain section of the sump with a 20ppi pad. Also, the pumps have a 20ppi sponge over the intakes.



I was thinking of doing this but I often have shrimp and small fish go down the drain. I would have to check that bag very day, which may not be easy. I have a fluval FX5 for the polishing. I was also thinking of getting a Hot Mag to hang on the back when I neen some extra polishing.




I've been following Gerry's Cerges reactor build and may add one in the configuration you mention. As it stands I have the co2 going into a mag 9.5 with needle wheel that that is leaning on the foam pad of the mag 1800 back to the tank. there is more mist than I want so I'll start looking at the Cerges reactor.


Mike

Most of the FYI's are based on experience. The downtuned overflow pies can still be done with a sponge prefilter, but you can use the mech filtration in the sump instead, eg, block sponge 20 ppi. At least you get decent large scale mech filtration this way. Lava is okay, but per unit area, the sponge does a good job.
The prefilter foam prevents critters from heading over, this is a real PITA for overflows and wet/drys.

A HOT mag is not big enough really.

An idea might be to run a Ocean Cleat or a Nu Clear canister filter with the CO2 system and get a little larger return pump for that, then use it in the sump as a return pump, the OC filter as a CO2 reactor.

That would be the best of both worlds.

This would yield much better fine mech filtration, the sponge block could be added anywhere really, you may not need to get rid of the lava. But some 20 ppi etc would help, 30 ppi tends to really clog fast in plant tanks.

 

[Dresdner]

what the hell is this i am just unable to view this link anymore here first it got opened and now its just showing error. why is this thing hapening?? could anyone solve this query of mine....