This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Unfortunately for Photobucket users, things have changed in a big way as of June 26th they are rolling out a $399 per year subscription fee for those who want to hotlink images from Photobucket’s servers to display elsewhere.
    This does not mean it only affects this site, It now means that billions of images across the Web now display an error message instead of the image in question. :(
    https://barrreport.com/threads/attention-photobucket-users.14377/
    Dismiss Notice

BBA in a non-CO2 tank

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by |squee|, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. |squee|

    |squee| Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    So I have a non-CO2 2ft tank set up according to the non-CO2 method by Tom.

    Although I haven't been doing any water changes, there is still BBA starting to grow on java fern leaves. The tank is thickly planted, 36W 10 hours daily.

    What might I doing wrong? BBA keeps hounding me CO2 or CO2-less :mad:
     
  2. 2wheelsx2

    2wheelsx2 Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    What size tank is this? I cannot offer any help, but I am fighting the same sort of problem, so am interested in comments to your post.
     
  3. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    2
    I also have been troubled by BBA in non-CO2 tanks, mainly on slow growing plants like java fern and anubias.

    I do not have a perfect solution, but removing the affected leaves seems to help. At least the tank looks better.

    Dipping the plant in a 5% solution of bleach will also remove the algae. There may be a limit to the number of times that you can do that with one speciffic plant, but I dont know for sure.

    I also dose Flourish once a week.

    Good luck.

    Bill
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Social Group Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,464
    Likes Received:
    337
    SAE's are very good with non CO2 tank BBA.
    If you user the slower growers, make sure they are in the understory, the shadows etc, getting some, but not the full light.

    I use T12s for non CO2.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  5. |squee|

    |squee| Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    But why does the BBA appear? Mine's a standard 2ft tank similar to Amano's.

    I have the Java ferns (narrow) directly underneath the 36W, is that why? Darn.

    I've been thinking along the lines of Excel now, or manual removal. Is it something I have to live with?
     
  6. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
    Love that algea!!!!!!!!!!

    Hi Tom,

    This is the subject for me!!

    At what watt to gallon would PC's be acceptable for non-C02 non-excel or are T-12's it?

    I currently run 5-29gal tanks, all are non-C02 non-excel. Originally all were on T-12's at a height of 8"-12" (due to custom stands) above water line. About six months ago I switched over to PC's. I have had mixed results. I am using EI for non-Co2 methods, no WC's, 10hr lighting and grazers(Ottos and SAE's). Fish load is right at one inch per gallon. Running skimmers on all to keep surface clear of scum. All works OK depending on the day and which tank is doing better. I have never seen no3 show on a test kit (know kit does work. ie when a tank cycles) and I currently dose twice a week. Macs and Mics on different days. I have seen the best results when the traces are are adjusted up. When traces where missed, algea appears more than usual. Plant growth is good overall, but some sort of algea is alway present, hiding:mad:

    All tanks are topsoil (Dorothy Reimer style)and are reaching the end, 11 months. Just set up a 20 long this weekend with Leonardite, dusting of peat and topped with 2" of crushed cherry granite(aka chick grit) 1/16 " grains. Also used this gravel on all 30's a year ago. Still have two 55 gals to go and one biggie(not purchased yet)

    Well, enough of that. Your opinion on lighting will be appreciated.

    Thanks Chris:cool:
     
  7. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
    Love that algea!!!!!!!!!! Part 2

    Tom, here is my routine if needed.

    29 gal-21 gal water column
    55w 7100k PC 8" above water line(was 40 watt t-12's 6 months ago, red plants would not grow)
    10 hr lighting 10am-8pm
    NO water changes-top off only
    1/8 tsp kno3, 1/32 tsp po4, s04 Sunday after top off, again on Wed
    1/8 tsp plantex+b on Mon and Thurs( started at 1/32 tsp)
    cut weeds back every 3 weeks or so
    0 ppm kno3
    3 ppm po4(don't really trust test kit, reads 1.5 all the time if no po4 used)
    .01 ppm p04 at tap-well water in Colorado mountains
    0 ppm fe (never had reading no matter what was put in)
    GH 8 to 11 depending on which tank
    KH 5 to 6 depending on which tank
    PH 7.8 steady in all- same from tap

    use red sea test kits

    several fish breed consistently (Aus rainbows; green, albino, and spotted cory's:
    Angel fish; Black skirt tetra)
    seems the better the fertz the more they go:eek:

    ps. that 12 ft tank is awsome - did it say 1000 Card tetras WOW:eek:


    Thanks again, Chris
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Social Group Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,464
    Likes Received:
    337
    Now do you folks agree that the point source light is a lot more intense under the PCs vs the T12s? Which have more power in terms of intensity?

    Which spread the light out more?

    I think 55's are a little more suitable or the t8/t12's.
    Less light over a wider area.

    Light drives CO2 uptake.
    More light=> more CO2 uptake.
    Too much light=> too much cO2 uptake, => BBA.

    You guys need to balance the light.
    Non CO2 is about balance, better to have the right amount of light here,then the rest falls into place.

    It's not hard, just use T12/T8/maybe low light T5(1-1.5 w/gal at most for T5).

    If you put a slow grower in high light spot in a non CO2 tank, you will get algae on it generally.

    Squu, move the java. Add a higher light fast grower thewre, you should be albe to prune things off, add an SAE, Amano shrimp etc.

    I'm not quiter clear what some of you are doing, non CO2 and EI do not go together.

    Read the non CO2 article here again.

    You can remove the soil if you want yearly, it's just like repotting a house plant once a year.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
    ooooooouch. won't be able to sit down for a week after that chewin.:eek:

    Tom,

    I'm dosing per your NON-C02 method. I can see the light (or to much light). Would using excel allow me to keep my PC lighting as is or is my only option to go with C02.

    I know I can always go back to T-12's. I used to use two 20 watt T-12's (40 watts total)over the 30's. One was a cool white and one was a Philips plant bulb. Are these adequate or is there a better T-12 bulb(s).

    Apoligizes from all newbies if this has been asked a million times before.

    Thanks, Chris
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Social Group Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,464
    Likes Received:
    337
    No chewing allowed, unless specifically requested:)
    No, folks get going on some things and forget and then someone esle reads it and asked and does EI.

    The non CO2 method is not based around eI, it's based on addign just enough to keep things okay in the low maintenance nion CO2 approach.
    It's base is still the saem as EI, it evolved from testing.

    Folks have been doing non CO2 for many many decades.
    Long before DW and other's wrote anything or where born.

    I took what she suggested and found little in the way of a "rate" of growth or NO3, K+, PO4 levels etc.

    I applied that to eI and also to this.
    But the dosing method is very different.
    We use water changes in one and toss the test kits and dose based on an assumed estimation of the max rate of growth.
    This range of ferts can be slowly reduced(assuming everything else is stable) to hit upon that "just enough" amount and then propped back up one step to keep things running smoothly. The problem is, many think their usage of ferts is constant. It's not. I prefer to have a good high range so that I can have more wiggle room and know that I have not run out of ferts evenm if my tank has grown 2-3x in biomass over the last 3 weeks etc.

    Ideally if you maintain a planted tank and want to maintain static fert dosing, you need to maintain constant Plant Biomass as well and stable CO2.
    More plants= more CO2 and more ferts.


    We do not use water changes in the other and dose based on a minimal use, to relieve any limitations that are strong. The effects of limitations are much less pronounced in a non CO2 tank(also in a lower light tank!!!) so this works well.

    In higher light/CO2 enriched etc, not so well, so we change methods and do water changes to deal with the differences in growth rates.





    Yes, you can keep the lights and use Excel if it's cost effective for you.
    You can also do water changes then also and use EI etc at about 1/3 the amount.
    Or some have opted not to do the water changes and run things at min level.
    Up to you really.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
     
  12. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    2
    Do you really have zero nitrates? If so, that is a problem in a tank that doesn't get water changes, like yours. Perhaps add more KNO3. Your phosphates also seem a bit low.

    I think in slow growth tanks one should test the water, even though the accuracy of some inexpensive test kits leaves something to be desired. Whether you have 5 or 25 PPM of nitrate isn't too important; if you have none it is quite important.

    If you have a kit that seems accurate you can use it to establish a base line and then just watch for changes. Weekly testing should be frequent enough until you you get things under control, then bi-weekly or monthly, or "when things don't look quite right" will do.

    As has been recommended here, you might also establish reference solutions and test your test kits.

    BTW, overdosing with Excel will also get rid of BBA, at least temporarily.

    Good luck!

    Bill
     
  13. |squee|

    |squee| Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    That really makes sense. Thanks Tom! :) I suppose I have to change my lights, or get some floating plants in there. I can't move the Java fern, it's rooted to wood and I really don't want to mess with the driftwood.
     
  14. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
    Does anyone know at what hieght above the water line should a t8/t5 be mounted? For non-C02 low light.

    What is the lighting period for a low light non-C02? I've read 10 hrs?

    Thanks Chris
     
  15. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    4
    Does light hieght even matter?? [anybody out there?]:confused:
     
Loading...

Share This Page