BBA in a non-CO2 tank

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Junior Poster
Jan 30, 2005
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So I have a non-CO2 2ft tank set up according to the non-CO2 method by Tom.

Although I haven't been doing any water changes, there is still BBA starting to grow on java fern leaves. The tank is thickly planted, 36W 10 hours daily.

What might I doing wrong? BBA keeps hounding me CO2 or CO2-less :mad:
 

aquabillpers

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I also have been troubled by BBA in non-CO2 tanks, mainly on slow growing plants like java fern and anubias.

I do not have a perfect solution, but removing the affected leaves seems to help. At least the tank looks better.

Dipping the plant in a 5% solution of bleach will also remove the algae. There may be a limit to the number of times that you can do that with one speciffic plant, but I dont know for sure.

I also dose Flourish once a week.

Good luck.

Bill
 

Tom Barr

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SAE's are very good with non CO2 tank BBA.
If you user the slower growers, make sure they are in the understory, the shadows etc, getting some, but not the full light.

I use T12s for non CO2.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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Junior Poster
Jan 30, 2005
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But why does the BBA appear? Mine's a standard 2ft tank similar to Amano's.

I have the Java ferns (narrow) directly underneath the 36W, is that why? Darn.

I've been thinking along the lines of Excel now, or manual removal. Is it something I have to live with?
 

Mooner

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Love that algea!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Tom,

This is the subject for me!!

At what watt to gallon would PC's be acceptable for non-C02 non-excel or are T-12's it?

I currently run 5-29gal tanks, all are non-C02 non-excel. Originally all were on T-12's at a height of 8"-12" (due to custom stands) above water line. About six months ago I switched over to PC's. I have had mixed results. I am using EI for non-Co2 methods, no WC's, 10hr lighting and grazers(Ottos and SAE's). Fish load is right at one inch per gallon. Running skimmers on all to keep surface clear of scum. All works OK depending on the day and which tank is doing better. I have never seen no3 show on a test kit (know kit does work. ie when a tank cycles) and I currently dose twice a week. Macs and Mics on different days. I have seen the best results when the traces are are adjusted up. When traces where missed, algea appears more than usual. Plant growth is good overall, but some sort of algea is alway present, hiding:mad:

All tanks are topsoil (Dorothy Reimer style)and are reaching the end, 11 months. Just set up a 20 long this weekend with Leonardite, dusting of peat and topped with 2" of crushed cherry granite(aka chick grit) 1/16 " grains. Also used this gravel on all 30's a year ago. Still have two 55 gals to go and one biggie(not purchased yet)

Well, enough of that. Your opinion on lighting will be appreciated.

Thanks Chris:cool:
 

Mooner

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Love that algea!!!!!!!!!! Part 2

Tom, here is my routine if needed.

29 gal-21 gal water column
55w 7100k PC 8" above water line(was 40 watt t-12's 6 months ago, red plants would not grow)
10 hr lighting 10am-8pm
NO water changes-top off only
1/8 tsp kno3, 1/32 tsp po4, s04 Sunday after top off, again on Wed
1/8 tsp plantex+b on Mon and Thurs( started at 1/32 tsp)
cut weeds back every 3 weeks or so
0 ppm kno3
3 ppm po4(don't really trust test kit, reads 1.5 all the time if no po4 used)
.01 ppm p04 at tap-well water in Colorado mountains
0 ppm fe (never had reading no matter what was put in)
GH 8 to 11 depending on which tank
KH 5 to 6 depending on which tank
PH 7.8 steady in all- same from tap

use red sea test kits

several fish breed consistently (Aus rainbows; green, albino, and spotted cory's:
Angel fish; Black skirt tetra)
seems the better the fertz the more they go:eek:

ps. that 12 ft tank is awsome - did it say 1000 Card tetras WOW:eek:


Thanks again, Chris
 

Tom Barr

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Now do you folks agree that the point source light is a lot more intense under the PCs vs the T12s? Which have more power in terms of intensity?

Which spread the light out more?

I think 55's are a little more suitable or the t8/t12's.
Less light over a wider area.

Light drives CO2 uptake.
More light=> more CO2 uptake.
Too much light=> too much cO2 uptake, => BBA.

You guys need to balance the light.
Non CO2 is about balance, better to have the right amount of light here,then the rest falls into place.

It's not hard, just use T12/T8/maybe low light T5(1-1.5 w/gal at most for T5).

If you put a slow grower in high light spot in a non CO2 tank, you will get algae on it generally.

Squu, move the java. Add a higher light fast grower thewre, you should be albe to prune things off, add an SAE, Amano shrimp etc.

I'm not quiter clear what some of you are doing, non CO2 and EI do not go together.

Read the non CO2 article here again.

You can remove the soil if you want yearly, it's just like repotting a house plant once a year.

Regards,
Tom Barr


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Mooner

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ooooooouch. won't be able to sit down for a week after that chewin.:eek:

Tom,

I'm dosing per your NON-C02 method. I can see the light (or to much light). Would using excel allow me to keep my PC lighting as is or is my only option to go with C02.

I know I can always go back to T-12's. I used to use two 20 watt T-12's (40 watts total)over the 30's. One was a cool white and one was a Philips plant bulb. Are these adequate or is there a better T-12 bulb(s).

Apoligizes from all newbies if this has been asked a million times before.

Thanks, Chris
 

Tom Barr

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No chewing allowed, unless specifically requested:)
No, folks get going on some things and forget and then someone esle reads it and asked and does EI.

The non CO2 method is not based around eI, it's based on addign just enough to keep things okay in the low maintenance nion CO2 approach.
It's base is still the saem as EI, it evolved from testing.

Folks have been doing non CO2 for many many decades.
Long before DW and other's wrote anything or where born.

I took what she suggested and found little in the way of a "rate" of growth or NO3, K+, PO4 levels etc.

I applied that to eI and also to this.
But the dosing method is very different.
We use water changes in one and toss the test kits and dose based on an assumed estimation of the max rate of growth.
This range of ferts can be slowly reduced(assuming everything else is stable) to hit upon that "just enough" amount and then propped back up one step to keep things running smoothly. The problem is, many think their usage of ferts is constant. It's not. I prefer to have a good high range so that I can have more wiggle room and know that I have not run out of ferts evenm if my tank has grown 2-3x in biomass over the last 3 weeks etc.

Ideally if you maintain a planted tank and want to maintain static fert dosing, you need to maintain constant Plant Biomass as well and stable CO2.
More plants= more CO2 and more ferts.


We do not use water changes in the other and dose based on a minimal use, to relieve any limitations that are strong. The effects of limitations are much less pronounced in a non CO2 tank(also in a lower light tank!!!) so this works well.

In higher light/CO2 enriched etc, not so well, so we change methods and do water changes to deal with the differences in growth rates.





Yes, you can keep the lights and use Excel if it's cost effective for you.
You can also do water changes then also and use EI etc at about 1/3 the amount.
Or some have opted not to do the water changes and run things at min level.
Up to you really.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Mooner

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Tom Barr;12686 said:
The problem is, many think their usage of ferts is constant. It's not.

In NON-C02, Low light, to not dose on a routine, what should be looked for if the object is to just use enough. Wait until growth stops and then add a little? I'm serious, I understand your EI on highlight/C02. Most don't have access to accurate test kits. Mabey there is no hard rule for low light, NON-C02? I have been dosing weekly no matter (creature of habit) per your article on NON-C02. I will figure this out someday(hit head against wall more). Your advise is helpful.

Is watt to gallon good enough for T-12's

Thanks, Chris
 

aquabillpers

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Do you really have zero nitrates? If so, that is a problem in a tank that doesn't get water changes, like yours. Perhaps add more KNO3. Your phosphates also seem a bit low.

I think in slow growth tanks one should test the water, even though the accuracy of some inexpensive test kits leaves something to be desired. Whether you have 5 or 25 PPM of nitrate isn't too important; if you have none it is quite important.

If you have a kit that seems accurate you can use it to establish a base line and then just watch for changes. Weekly testing should be frequent enough until you you get things under control, then bi-weekly or monthly, or "when things don't look quite right" will do.

As has been recommended here, you might also establish reference solutions and test your test kits.

BTW, overdosing with Excel will also get rid of BBA, at least temporarily.

Good luck!

Bill
 

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Jan 30, 2005
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Tom Barr;12680 said:
Light drives CO2 uptake.
More light=> more CO2 uptake.
Too much light=> too much cO2 uptake, => BBA.
That really makes sense. Thanks Tom! :) I suppose I have to change my lights, or get some floating plants in there. I can't move the Java fern, it's rooted to wood and I really don't want to mess with the driftwood.
 

Mooner

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Does anyone know at what hieght above the water line should a t8/t5 be mounted? For non-C02 low light.

What is the lighting period for a low light non-C02? I've read 10 hrs?

Thanks Chris