Back to Hormones / growth regulators

[fplata]

Folks,

2 months ago despite of what i have read, I decided to run a test using hormones (growth regulators) on 7 species of aquatic plants plants, i have 6 specimens of each on 6 different tanks, all getting CO2 and high light. i am running tank 1 with no hormones and tank 6 with no hormones just different degrees of light and co2. and the remainder 4 tanks have been getting dosing of the growth regulators in different ratios and quantities. i am highly documenting this experiment, as of right now the only real significance one one of the tanks is the root growth, some other tanks are showing growth that we do not care about, but its interesting, in a two week period one of the specimens of glosso grew 4 inches of roots and 4.3 inches tall with each node being 1.2 inches apart, however with the addition of cytokinins (I will spare you the technical stuff) on a separate tank i was able to get similar root growth , but with the nodes being stouter and about 1/3 of inch in length. I have much more interesting observations and will most likely, if there is any interest share them here. i am only 4 weeks into my testing, and i honestly do not think there is a place for hormones for the hobby-man/woman, since the weeds grow good enough with just light, Co2 and fertz, but nevertheless i am a bone head and will complete these tests

 

[Tom Barr]

Tom Kane at UF also made similar conclusions as did I.
I got more flowers with Crypts, but that was the same result Tom had...........I could not show any significant difference between controls and treatments otherwise.

I did not test Jasmonic acids or jasmonate.
Pricy stuff.

 

[fplata]

its an expensive test for sure.

I am also testing Salicylic acid as its supposed to have an anty pathogen effect, i am not seeing any results against hair algae, but i have started dosing at .001 PPM, i plan to go as high as 2 PPM to see what happends here

as far as the hormones i am using the following

trans zeatin
zeatin
Ga3
iba
ibb
kinetin
2ip
naa
iaa

as well as some vitamin solutions, now i have seen some crazy stuff happen to glosso grown emersed. but nothing good for us. i have a pot of glosso that was planted from cutting from my tank 9 days ago and i have them flowering. again nothing that we can use as a hobby, but interesting none the less, I will continue to put in my time and increase dosing and ratios of Cytokinins and auxings, who knows i might hit on something for a specific plant, but certanly there is no silver bullet for all weeds. as far as callus formation on freshly trimmed plants i have not be able to measure any difference between the tanks with hormones as apposed to the tanks with out. I am currently dosing low my lowest doze is of .001 PPM with the highest being 1 ppm, but i have enough stuff to go as high as 10 PPM. shoot this thing should grow hair on my bold head, i am afraid i will look like a chia pet, i mean a gloss pet by the time i am done with this tests. I am not testing on fish or shrimp

 

[fplata]

Tom,

what hormones did you test?

 

[Tom Barr]

The main 5 and then a mix, then super thrive, which never has shown any effect in planted tanks for many years of usage.

Since the growth we want is vegetative only, not flower/fruit etc.........these really cannot allocate more growth, because growth is limited not by PGR's, rather, by CO2, light, nutrients.
PGR's/Hormones only change where and what grows..........not adding more growth out nothing, many aquarist seem to be extremely ignorant of this fact.

I explain it, but they do not get it and then keep thinking there's something to ADA's snake oil in a bottle etc. :eyeroll:

PGR's do NOT increase growth rates.
They can change growth patterns/allocation of the resources, but the basic resources are still limited by light/CO2 nutrient and general growth requirements.
PGR's are not suddenly going to make more light, CO2 and nutrients. Which is what some ADA fan boys have tried to suggest, which is plain piles of manure.


PGR's are good for in vitro culture and flowers etc, cross, and soem tiisue culture etc, if you like to cross various plants like swords or Crypts, you might find it useful.

Jasmonic and jasmonate can potentially cause allocation to the red pigmentations.......but it's not cheap stuff, so I did not try.
A few friends on the Molecular side study and use it, but they never had much.
Be nice to add a PGR like that that would turn the plants a nice red color but allocating the resources towards pigmentation.
It would cost you an arm and leg though.

 

[fplata]

Thanks Tom, I fully agree with you, I am going to finish my tests, just to use up my hormones, and satisfy my curiosity. And then on to next test

 

[Tom Barr]

Thanks Tom, I fully agree with you, I am going to finish my tests, just to use up my hormones, and satisfy my curiosity. And then on to next test

Well, there are VERY FEW hobbyists that have access and have actually used them in conjunction and individually, so the reports are based more on the Bull Manure marketing crap fed by companies.
So it's very good you did this and are interested...........and it's also a good sign is.........method consistency. You did pretty much what I did and came to fairly similar conclusions.
Emergent stuff and different species etc are going to be different but as such, it looks like this supports the general conclusion/take home message.

I really see few changes, differences due to that relationship with vegetative growth being limited not by PGR's, but by Light, CO2, nutrients and then physical biological growth/Temp etc.
Once folks understand the limitations of allocation and what the PGR's actually do....then they can truly understand them.
My old prof DeJong is a crotchety old guy but he really meant what he said on this point and it bugged him that so many did not understand this.
I liked him and could have put in more into that class than I did.
As far as aquatics, Kane is the best guy in the Eastern USA on PGR's.

The owner's (FAN) son went to school at UF and took some classes with Kane. I actually never took any but came over and talked him a few times.
I take folks by the lab of his when I do the plant Fest (next year likely), then over to meet with Bill Haller(aquatic weed God) at the Aquatic Weed lab. Local stuff, then we head out and about to the field sites.

Try and look up as much as you can on aquatics and PGR's. A lot of it applies to herbicides, they are often targeting specific PGR's.
My old major prof would get mad if I did not say PGR's, and used the term hormones, they are technically not hormones at all.

 

[pejerrey]

If I drink water from your tanks, will
I grow a third arm from my chest?

I'll come handy to text while I ride my bike.



Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!

 

[Tom Barr]

If I drink water from your tanks, will
I grow a third arm from my chest?

I'll come handy to text while I ride my bike.



Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!

Are you still growing and adding biomass?

You could add shelf to hold a laptop if you drink enough beer.

 

[fplata]

I have read as many research papers as I could find. There are some interesting observations that I have made, I'll share everything on detail, one of the main issues I am having is the amount of time it takes to stage each test a d the documentation. I am also noticing that while some ratios produce better than the controlled environment on one species that same ratio stunts or harms other plants. While glosso seems to react the fastest to any changes some of the lower species die off in high concentrations and others loose placid dominance. I'll post all my finding in the next month or so.

 

[pejerrey]

Are you still growing and adding biomass?

You could add shelf to hold a laptop if you drink enough beer.

Lol! Hehehe

 

[fplata]

View attachment 3653
One of the test stations

this is the catch all tank. Well my co2 bill is soon to be as high ad my water bill

I uprooted some weeds today to measure root growth. And there clearly is a major difference between the controlled tank and two tanks with higher concentrations of auxins, nearly 1 ppm which makes this little improvement price prohibited