This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Are Otocinclus sensitive to metals?

Discussion in 'Fish for Planted Tanks' started by Solcielo lawrencia, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Solcielo lawrencia

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    44
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I overdosed iron a couple of months ago (concentration=3ppm) and an Oto was found dead the next day. It could have been just a coincidence but over the following months, they kept dying one after the other, even ones I've had for several months. After the overdose, one Oto started doing this weird behavior where it grabs onto the heater by the surface and appears to breathe air rapidly. It never did that before the overdose but has been doing it for the past couple of months on an almost daily occurrence, even now that I put it into another tank. I read that this gasping for air is a sign of heavy metal poisoning.* It's now the only Oto that has survived.

    Another possibility is that just before I overdosed iron, I added baking soda to increase kH by 2-3 degrees. So perhaps it's sensitive to sodium?

    I'd really like to know what the best environment are for these fish since they are my favorite. But I don't want to keep them without knowing the necessary water parameters that best allows them to thrive. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks

    *http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/256369-your-corys-health/
     
  2. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I have Oto's and dose high iron without issues. Well I was doing 2.25ppm

    [​IMG]
     
    #2 UDGags, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2013
  3. Solcielo lawrencia

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    44
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I added ferrous iron (Fe2+) from ferrous sulfate. Maybe the kind of iron plays a role. After I overdosed, the water became yellow.
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I've seen Otto cats die regardless of dosing the exact same way perhaps 100X over the years.
    The tank size seemed to dictate the population at the end.

    I have other plecos and they seem to compete if present and reduce the population of ottos.

    I might start with say 40 otto cats in a 180 Gallon tank. I always am left with 4-6 later.
    Soil, driftwood, tannins, plants, leachate....these all reduce metal toxicity.
    So do large weekly water changes or 2x a week water changes.

    I think it has more to do with the diatoms population/growth rate.
    They really do not eat much else, but I've seen them eat flake and algae sticks, but mostly the older ones who made the culling period.
    I had the same issue in the past without plants also.

    The ones that do live.....they live like forever and are tough as nails.
    Very hard to kill.

    This suggest something other than environmental causes, so food seems like the most likely cause.......and diatoms are the main food.
    We cannot see most of the diatoms present, but they are there.

    I use to have about 8 in my 180 Gallon.
    I started keeping Sturisoma which eat a lot of diatoms on the glass, same for the Gold Nuggets.
    Now I'm left with only 2 in each tank. If those where removed and I add some more otto's back, I have little doubt they'd adjust and end up with a similar no#.
    I've seen this same thing the entire time I've kept fish and Otto's, so since 1977.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I've seen Otto cats die regardless of dosing the exact same way perhaps 100X over the years.
    The tank size seemed to dictate the population at the end.

    I have other plecos and they seem to compete if present and reduce the population of ottos.

    I might start with say 40 otto cats in a 180 Gallon tank. I always am left with 4-6 later.
    Soil, driftwood, tannins, plants, leachate....these all reduce metal toxicity.
    So do large weekly water changes or 2x a week water changes.

    I think it has more to do with the diatoms population/growth rate.
    They really do not eat much else, but I've seen them eat flake and algae sticks, but mostly the older ones who made the culling period.
    I had the same issue in the past without plants also.

    The ones that do live.....they live like forever and are tough as nails.
    Very hard to kill.

    This suggest something other than environmental causes, so food seems like the most likely cause.......and diatoms are the main food.
    We cannot see most of the diatoms present, but they are there.

    I use to have about 8 in my 180 Gallon.
    I started keeping Sturisoma which eat a lot of diatoms on the glass, same for the Gold Nuggets.
    Now I'm left with only 2 in each tank. If those where removed and I add some more otto's back, I have little doubt they'd adjust and end up with a similar no#.
    I've seen this same thing the entire time I've kept fish and Otto's, so since 1977.
     
  6. Solcielo lawrencia

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    44
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    So how do I culture diatoms in large enough numbers in a stable tank to support a large colony?
     
  7. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    That's some good info Tom. I've added Oto's multiple times and end up around the same number 6-8 in my 125g. I attributed it to just them being sensitive. I would lose 1 every few weeks or so...was not a major die off so never suspected metal. I personally feed mine cucumbers and they eat sinking pellets I've found.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    Yes, but those 6-8 will live like........... forever.

    I'm not sure how to culture diatoms specifically, you just need a lot of plants and surface area really.
    And fewer other algae eaters to compete.
    You generally end up with many other species of algae, not diatoms.
    Lower light quarantine tanks seemed to have diatoms more often.

    You could try and grow rocks/slate outside in the sun light in juicy ferts etc, then add those once a week or two to the tank.
    Or place a piece of slate near the surface by the water current/filter out flow rippling across the top, and then place down lower after a week and rotate another piece up there.

    I've done this for some fish.
     
  9. Solcielo lawrencia

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    44
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    The deaths don't seem to have anything to do with starving since they usually have full bellies when they're found belly up. I'm wondering what their diet is like in the wild. Is it an incompatible diet that causes these sudden deaths? Why don't we know more about their living conditions when they've been an aquarium staple for decades? Information is hard to come by and the ones available seem to just copy the other limited information.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    My info is based on observations and what I can rule out or at least, seems not very likely.
    If it were environmental, why do the few that remain live through the 9 levels of Hell?
    I cannot rationally accept that.

    I've rarely ever seen them eat any food I've offered.

    Tanks where there are more algae eaters= less otto's.

    I've added and resupplied more later, only to revert back to the standard 6-8.
    Why are we left with some and why do they do very well for years, while the initial die off is rapid and then tapers slowly?

    Food is the only decent hypothesis I can account for.

    Similar observation based things for algae, plant growth, breeding, shrimp(rampant myths occurred really fast as that hobby took off), Fish health etc........help address the myths and hopefully narrow the potential causes down to a few that you can look at more closely and if lucky, rule out another 1-2 more.
    But this takes time and experience, something many on line lack.

    I really do not know much, but I know what I can rule out.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    My info is based on observations and what I can rule out or at least, seems not very likely.
    If it were environmental, why do the few that remain live through the 9 levels of Hell?
    I cannot rationally accept that.

    I've rarely ever seen them eat any food I've offered.

    Tanks where there are more algae eaters= less otto's.

    I've added and resupplied more later, only to revert back to the standard 6-8.
    Why are we left with some and why do they do very well for years, while the initial die off is rapid and then tapers slowly?

    Food is the only decent hypothesis I can account for.

    Similar observation based things for algae, plant growth, breeding, shrimp(rampant myths occurred really fast as that hobby took off), Fish health etc........help address the myths and hopefully narrow the potential causes down to a few that you can look at more closely and if lucky, rule out another 1-2 more.
    But this takes time and experience, something many on line lack.

    I really do not know much, but I know what I can rule out.
     
  12. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    Is it possible that otos are sensitive because they are wild caught and not bred in aquaria? I'd imagine that by the time they get to us, they have been through a lot of stress.
     
  13. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    i am looking for oto affinis in my tank, now i dont know if 6 of them on a 12g tank is way to much!

    For now i have diatom problem, but if they only eat these algae and not the BBA i have, the only foods i can think of is vegetables like courgette and such,

    Tom, any experience feeding them vegetables?

    - - - Updated - - -

    i am looking for oto affinis in my tank, now i dont know if 6 of them on a 12g tank is way to much!

    For now i have diatom problem, but if they only eat these algae and not the BBA i have, the only foods i can think of is vegetables like courgette and such,

    Tom, any experience feeding them vegetables?
     
  14. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    I feed mine cucumbers

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    Any squash and cucurbita will work, some folks steam the veggies a bit, then feed.
    Beans (steamed) would seem like a good food to me.
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    12:28 AM
    Any squash and cucurbita will work, some folks steam the veggies a bit, then feed.
    Beans (steamed) would seem like a good food to me.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice