This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. Support us by upgrading to the lifetime advertisement free version.

    Click here for more information.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice
Ad Free Version - No more add? Aquarium Plant Images Wanted

Aquasoil cycling and lasting ph affects

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by aman74, Mar 1, 2007.

  1. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    I finally decided that aquasoil will be my substrate and part of that is because of the lowering of the pH.

    In my research I saw a post where Tom said that the lowering was artificial and will throw off the readings for how much Co2 ppm you have in the tank.

    I'm wondering what all that means?

    And does the pH lowering affect last? And does it affect gh/kh as well?

    Thanks!

    Anthony
     
    #1 aman74, Mar 1, 2007
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    731
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    It lowers the pH by something other than CO2.
    So tannins will do this, PO4 acids and various other weak acids.

    So when you try and figure the CO2 using the tap water's KH +pH, it'll show you have 20-30ppm of CO2 without adding any CO2 at all.
    The pH is lowered, but the CO2 is still the same as any tank without CO2 added.

    To get more CO2, you must add, well obviously..........more CO2.

    I have no idea how long the effect last as things like your water change % weekly/monthly routines vary, the hardness of the taps used, plant extraction/pruning species vary considerably.

    Months, years I'd say.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #2 Tom Barr, Mar 1, 2007
  3. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Thanks Tom,

    So, would I just get a reading for the ppm before Co2 and then add the Co2 and take another reading, but add showed up in the non Co2 reading as well?

    And I forgot to ask about cycling with aquasoil. I've seen the posts about heavy water changes at first because of the ammonia. However since the plants and bacteria eat the ammonia wouldn't it be better to just leave it be? Alot of people add ammonia for a fishless cycle anyhow. Or is it too high a level?

    I'm going to be using mulm as well and I'm wondering if I should add it with the soil and in the filter and then fill up the tank and just let it be. Or if I should just add water and do water changes for several days and then add the mulm.

    Peace,

    Anthony
     
    #3 aman74, Mar 1, 2007
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    731
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Do the water changes, amano does, I do, Oliver Knott and so do most folks in the know.

    2x a week for the first 2-6 weeks or so.
    You could use zeolite also/in place of if weekly is all you can do.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #4 Tom Barr, Mar 2, 2007
  5. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Sounds good, I didn't know if the high ammonia would adversely affect the mulm and I should wait to add it then. Just looking to minimize cycle time.

    To be clear on measuring CO2 with aquasoil. Say I am trying to add 30ppm of CO2 and my tank measures 30ppm CO2 before adding any because of the aquasoil. So when I do add it I need to add enough for it to read 60ppm?

    Thanks
     
    #5 aman74, Mar 2, 2007
  6. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    94
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    If you want to measure the amount of CO2 in the water buy or make a drop checker and use it with KH reference water in it instead of tank water. No other method really works reliably.
     
    #6 VaughnH, Mar 2, 2007
  7. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Just wanting to keep this as simple as possible. I'm just going to have DIY CO2 and I don't need exact numbers. This is why I'm wondering if with aquasoil I will have to take the reading before adding CO2 and add that to the number afterwards.
     
    #7 aman74, Mar 4, 2007
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    731
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    I'd not worry about "cycle" time.
    Worry about getting high plant biomass and good growth, then the cycle will no longer matter.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #8 Tom Barr, Mar 4, 2007
  9. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Yeah, I'm less worried about that then I am trying to measure the CO2 with aquasoil.

    In my last post I was referring to how to determine CO2 levels when using CO2.

    Since it will give you a ppm reading before adding any additional CO2 I'm wondering if you need to add that number to the amount measured after adding the CO2.

    Thanks
     
    #9 aman74, Mar 4, 2007
  10. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    94
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    No you can't add or subtract ppm of CO2 as you are suggesting. ppm of CO2 is inversely proportional to 10 raised to the power of the pH being measured. So, a small difference in pH makes a big difference in measured CO2 ppm. You really do need a cheap little drop checker to find out how much CO2 is dissolved in the water. You can actually make one that works for very little money.
     
    #10 VaughnH, Mar 4, 2007
  11. aman74

    aman74 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Thanks vaughn, good info here.

    I imagine there's alot of folks who don't know that when using aquasoil, and I'm sure other situations as well.

    Can I assume this won't be a big issue though if I just do DIY CO2 since it's pretty hard to overdose with a yeast method?
     
    #11 aman74, Mar 5, 2007
  12. growitnow

    growitnow Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Hello,

    Just thought of something re: getting a sense of how much C02 is in new Aqua soil tank. If the tank is not set up yet, would it make sense to do the following:

    Set up filters, diffusers, & hardscape, but no substrate.
    Run filters for 24hrs to promote degassing.
    Measure pH. Add C02 *using* pH/KH table to bring C02 to about 25ppm.

    ==> this amount C02 (read bubbles per sec) would then serve as the baseline starting point in the new tank once substrate is added

    Empty tank, add Aquasoil & scape. Plant & refill.

    Add C02 appling same bubbles per sec that earlier produced 25ppm with no substrate. Even if pH/KH changes because of AS over first days/weeks, the baseline bubbles per sec that produced 25ppm CO2 could serve as reference.

    Drop checker yes, but is my logic here sound?

    Cheers,

    "growitnow"
    Bob
     
    #12 growitnow, Mar 5, 2007
  13. growitnow

    growitnow Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    After now having read many of Vaughn's excellent posts on drop checkers, I believe the answer to my own question is:

    Yes, and no. 'Yes' if there are no other agents in the tap water which would affect pH or KH, which is unlikely. And 'No' if there are such agents present, though this method might provide a rough ballpark"

    So, "yes and no, but a drop checker would still be more accurate".
     
    #13 growitnow, Mar 6, 2007
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    731
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    You are not going to be able to measure the CO2 via a pH/Kh relationship unless it's relative to something you do know, like a standard.
    a good pH meter is also helpful.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #14 Tom Barr, Mar 6, 2007
  15. Micardiz

    Micardiz Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Cycling the Aquasoil

    Can I just soak the aqua soil in water,...you know,..saturate the substrate with water as Tom suggests in his DSM but without actually doing any planting for about 2 months to cycle the aqua soil? I am planning to start a nonco2 tank with AS but I was thinking if I do the daily water changes without co2, I would only be causing co2 fluctuations and confuse the plants.
     
    #15 Micardiz, Jan 3, 2010
  16. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    1:10 PM
    Hi,

    I am not familiar with aqua soil or for that matter any other commercial substrate, but the stuff I use I have always found it beneficial to soak in filtered water (water I use for water change). :)

    Biollante
     
    #16 Biollante, Jan 5, 2010
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...
Similar Threads - Aquasoil cycling lasting
  1. mexicatz

    Question About Aquasoil Cycling

    mexicatz, Dec 17, 2018, in forum: Sediment / Substrate
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    846
    mexicatz
    Dec 17, 2018
  2. Richard Jones

    Advice For Switching To Aquasoil

    Richard Jones, Feb 15, 2021, in forum: Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    120
    Richard Jones
    Feb 25, 2021 at 8:51 PM
  3. Nathi Kaminski

    Aquasoil + Diy Substrate ?

    Nathi Kaminski, Jan 25, 2020, in forum: Sediment / Substrate
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    973
    bshenanagins
    Jan 30, 2020
  4. JadePony

    Aquasoil Dust Storm, Suggestions?

    JadePony, Jan 3, 2020, in forum: Sediment / Substrate
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    481
    JadePony
    Jan 3, 2020
  5. Harris Tiu

    Vacuum Frequency With Aquasoil

    Harris Tiu, Apr 4, 2019, in forum: General Plant Topics
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,052
    Simon Yee
    Apr 4, 2019

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Accept Learn More...
    Dismiss Notice