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Any idea whats going on here?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by feh, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    [​IMG]

    CO2 - none
    KNO3 - 3/4 tsp weekly
    KH2PO4 - 1/4 tsp weekly
    Plantex CMS+B 1/4 tsp + 1 cap of Flourish Comp. weekly
    Lighting 1x 54watt T5HO on top of the tank 8hrs a day
    GH 5
    KH 2

    I will say I do have snails which I'm still trying to get rid of. Not sure what they hitchhiked in on.
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    3/4 Teaspoon KNO3/Week In 2 Liters Is Way Too Much, In 10,000 Liters Way Too Little

    Hi,

    I have plenty of ideas but with the lack of information, basics like tank volume and what you want us to look for, I really do not know where to start.:eek:

    The thing I can say is that it is very unlikely the snails are harmful and are just trying to help you out with the imbalance you have created.:cool:

    Everybody has to make a living.:rolleyes:

    Biollante
     
  3. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    Tank volume is 55 gallons. The leaves on the hydrocotyle look like they've been chewed.
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Information... Good

    Hi,

    Do you mind sharing with us what critters; you may have in what we now know to be a 55-gallon tank?:confused:

    Could you share how long the Hydrocotyle, probably leucocephala been in your tank?:confused:

    Without knowing how long the plant has been in the tank, it looks as though it may be adapting to submerged life.:)

    I think your potassium and iron/micronutrients are on the low side.

    Just from what I see in the picture, I would advise adding at least ½ teaspoon KNO3.:)

    I would add at least 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt as well.:)

    Were it me I would also add another ¼ to ½ teaspoon of CSM+B. Though the added magnesium may take care of the problem.:D

    Biollante
     
  5. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    Other than the few snails left that I'm still working to eradicate I have 15 amano shrimp and 7 silver hatchets. I know its not the hatchets because it was happening before they were introduced. The H. luecocephala has been added weekly from my other tank which I was growing it out in so its been grown submerged. That tank has Co2 and I had no issues in that tank with it. I've been adding it over the past month and 1/2 when I had pieces long enough to cut it. The piece I took the pic of has been in the longest. I will say I fudged a little on the ferts. I did up the ferts to twice a week with 1/4 tsp of micros and 1/4 tsp of KNO3 and 1/8 tsp of KH2PO4 more for the past 3 weeks with no change. Even the new piece I added this week is starting to show the same signs after a week. I would think there is plenty of K between the 2 of those but I do have some K2SO4 that can be added. The only difference in this tank and other other aside from usual aspects is the other tank has CO2 and the ferts are much higher due to that fact. The lighting is pretty much the same and its grown in the same place in the tank. I do run 2 T5HO bulbs but they are 12" above the tank where as this one is on top of the tank same number of hours for photo period.

    Should I try dosing the higher amounts weekly as per Tom's nonCo2 method or continue with biweekly dosing or just move to full EI dosing even though there is no excel or co2? I've been thinking about raising the light fixture to see if it might be too much for the plants considering where they are in the water column. With the light directly on top of the tank I'm thinking the PAR would be fairly high considering how high in the column the plants are. Everything else seems to be doing ok. Even the Cyperus helferi.
     
    #5 feh, Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2011
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Information & Snails Are (Usually) Good

    Hi,

    This is where information helps!:cool:

    Your plant(s) is(are) adjusting to the new circumstance; you will need to give it a little time. Going from high CO2, high nutrient and perhaps lower light is a shock.

    I would certainly advise the higher nutrient (micro and macro) levels you could always reduce later.;)

    I would also add the teaspoon or so of Epsom salt, to be sure the iron is being properly used.

    As far as the snails, seriously leave them alone, they are providing a service and will go away as they are no longer needed all by themselves.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  7. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    They're pond snails... they'll take over my tank if I let them. Thanks for the info though. I assumed there would be some adjustment after going from high CO2... The only reason I haven't gone with full EI with this tank is the lack of CO2 injection or carbon dosing.
     
  8. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    Snail Wars

    I have never bothered combating snails. (plus the little buggers would probably win) They keep themselves in check when conditions are right. I've never bothered to identify them either, but there is a variety in my tanks. Most of the time they are not noticeable.

    Biollante has a gentle nature and would not like helpful critters harmed for doing what they were meant to..
     
  9. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    No problem.
     
  10. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    We All Gotta Make A Living

    Hi,

    Shawn is correct, I do not condone nor care for the idea of killing things for the sake of killing or simply because we do not understand it or its function.:(

    I raise plants and critters for food, as food for my household, a couple institutions I support and for other plants and critters. :eek:

    I study plants and critters, which often risks or requires their death.:( I do not do so lightly, but it is how we live and come better to understand our world.:)

    Pond snails are an excellent example, the time and effort, the anxiety these wonderful little creatures blissfully going about their business cause!

    • People around here and many other forums (I like fora, but told it is pretentious) talk about test equipment, meters and the like when our little friend the pond snail can give us a reasonably gauge of the condition and quality of the water.
    • Though folks do not like to hear it, snail and alga type, a little process of elimination can tell us quite a bit about water quality.

    Not to be difficult, see disclaimer, what Tom Barr says about not being able to get algae to grow is simply an indicator of water quality, qualitative as it may be, quantitative analysis will or would, bear that out.:rolleyes:

    I (intentionally) grow (people like the term “culture”) many varieties of invertebrates (including snails), bacteria, fungi and algae.

    • Try (intentionally) raising (culturing) specific algae species sometime!

    Many of the “problem” life forms in our aquaria actually have specific requirements, many would be quite baffled (had they the awareness) that so many are so upset by their presence, as far as they are concerned, you created the conditions, they are just looking for a job, we all have to make a living after all.

    • Many of these primitive creatures have specific niches, specific tasks to perform and when the task is completed, the go dormant.

    I could easily make the case that this is what those pond snails are doing, a task and at the same time indicating and perhaps even suggesting a course of action should you wish a different condition.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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  12. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    Well, you have them surrounded...

    ah, now you have gone and introduced invasive species into the mix. Good thing your tank is not ecologically connected to other water systems and you do not have boating. Otherwise game and fish may be very upset with you...

    Maybe identification of your snails is needed? Biollante will know, I'm just a guy chiming in with useless comments :D
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Keep Dutch Freighters Out Of Your Tank!

    Hi,

    I would make the same recommendation to the folks that (mis?)manage the resources of the great lakes. :p

    As a keeper of aquariums you do not have the problems of ships coming from the Netherlands and spreading unwanted critters.:rolleyes:

    Should you find yourself with an overabundance of zebra mussels, blocking up your intakes and out flows,:eek: I would have a few suggestions for you, not the least of which would be contemplating your suitability for the hobby.:D

    All kidding aside, I understand your concern, but I think you need to be realistic about the difference between our closed hobbyist systems and open multi-use natural systems.:cool:

    Have fun,
    Biollante
     
  14. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    Would that be that people flush unwanted fish etc. down drains? That kind of opens a closed system to species invading natural systems. :)
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Anyone Heard From Gerry...

    Hi,

    Not really, contrary to a very popular movie nothing survives “the flush.”:eek:

    I still think it is an inappropriate way to dispose of fish or other critters. When you keep critters, you have to be prepared to properly care for them, including euthanizing or paying someone to humanly euthanize critters when necessary.:)

    The serious problem is people releasing exotic plants and critters into the environment. People thinking they are being humane, who simply cannot or will not euthanize or “re-home” their pets.

    • I fully believe we have a moral (in some cases legal) obligation to be reasonably sure; we can meet the needs of the flora and fauna we obtain.
    • That means for its entire life cycle
    • that includes precautions to protect the health and safety of our families, neighbors and community.

    As much as I dislike regulations as those being proposed in San Francisco, I understand them and frankly we hobbyists bear a great deal of responsibility for our failure to act responsibly and for tolerating the behavior of our fellow hobbyists to act responsibly.:gw

    Every time a couple of days go by and I don’t see a post from Gerryd, I am always afraid one of those pythons taking over the everglades got him.:eek:

    Biollante
     
  16. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    I do care for the flora and fauna i purchase. The snails were simply hitchhikers from plants which is not uncommon. They lay their eggs on plant leaves, glass, rocks, etc. I'm not one that likes to dip plants in solutions that may or may not work to get rid of snail eggs and may or may not damage the plants depending on what said solution is comprised of.
     
  17. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Quarantine/Sterilize/Sanitize... Oh My Yes

    Hi,

    Hitchhikers are part of life.;) Our systems would not work without them.:)

    Your failure, or decision not to quarantine, sanitize or sterilize has consequences.

    While there is no way to “sterilize a living thing” without killing it, there are effective methods of minimizing the risks, knowing which method meets the safety/effectiveness/cost analysis is part of any decision as to whether we are competent to meet the needs of the various living things we decide to keep. :rolleyes:

    In the case of the pond snails, the fact that they exist in noticeable levels suggests a water quality problem, not a snail problem.:gw In fact, in all likelihood ridding the tank of the snails will decrease the water quality.:eek:

    I understand you haven’t got an ORP meter and there is no need for you to get one. “ORP values” are simply a method to communicate water quality. If you want to rid your tank of common pond snails, simply increase your water quality to something over 300-320-mV or so, you will be able to tell you have arrived when the snails are an uncommon sight.:cool:

    As to the effectiveness of dips:
    Give the plant a good rinse, under the tap looking and feeling for special treats, garbage, gunk or slime, followed by a 3-minute dip for the moss 7-15-minute dip in 20-ppm KMnO4 for everyone else in the photo.

    • During this process of inspecting and rinsing is where I have made some extraordinary finds.:cool:

    Followed by a dip and good rinse in clean water with de-chlorinator, lemon juice for that matter, pretty much insures the unwanted guest are no more. :)

    Personally I tend to keep the plants quarantined for another couple of weeks and like to help them adjust to the conditions they are heading for. :)

    The bonus is the KMnO4 is reusable, just keep a lid on it also serves as a dip for nets and so forth.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  18. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    :D Hehe...
     
  19. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Picture Good, If...

    Hi,

    Picture of snails out of the water, well lit, one from above, and one turned on its side and one foot-side up.:gw

    Dark snails on light or white background, light colored snails on darker background, lots of light either way!:)

    For critters so simple, they do stir a lot of passion and that goes for the world of naming and defining as well.

    • When you get right down to it, they only have a
    • head,
    • foot and
    • shell, these always visible then the
    • visceral mass that contains all the innards.
    What we are interested in is, well everything… Well is it left or right handed, is there a trap door, are there gills or does it have a lung.

    Assuming we are dealing with common freshwater snails (actually there is an astounding amount of debate over “pond snails,” means different things to different folks) we are interested in shell shape, is it... well… this link from the good folks at “Apple Snails" will show you more than I can tell… http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php :cool:

    Biollante
     
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