Another method for CO2 diffusion: needle wheel powerheads

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
20
38
South Florida
By the way, what do you guys mean by "staggering the holes" in the impeller?

If you drill say 3 holes in each blade, don't put the holes in the exact same place in the other blades. Even to move them a lttle is good from what I understand...
If you can fit a triangle of holes on each blades, just rotate the triangle on each blade so it points a different way, as an example.......

BTW, I think I am the only one who can't get this to work.......lol
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
lol.... so what did you do different from them that it doesnt work? that's kind of odd....

how bout you other guys, any suggestions or comments?
 

VaughnH

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 24, 2005
3,011
94
48
85
Sacramento, CA
Suggestion: Big holes work better than little holes. But, little paddles have room for very few big holes. That is part of the problem.

Also, using a hot finishing nail to melt holes in the paddles is better than trying to drill them.
 

SeanS

Junior Poster
Sep 15, 2007
6
0
1
VaughnH;26502 said:
Suggestion: Big holes work better than little holes. But, little paddles have room for very few big holes. That is part of the problem.

Also, using a hot finishing nail to melt holes in the paddles is better than trying to drill them.

Have you attempted both methods? Why do you say melting is better than drilling?
It is likely I will be attempting this soon, so I appreciate any information you can provide.
 

VaughnH

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 24, 2005
3,011
94
48
85
Sacramento, CA
SeanS;26513 said:
Have you attempted both methods? Why do you say melting is better than drilling?
It is likely I will be attempting this soon, so I appreciate any information you can provide.

I tried both ways, and found it harder to control where a drilled hole went than where a melted hole went. Also, it was hard to hold the rotor and control the drill without risk of drilling my finger. And, I know from other experience that drilling in plastic can melt the plastic from the friction, welding the drill bit into the hole, which can lead to cracking the plastic.
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
SuperColey1;23826 said:
Is this a better MOd even than the needle wheel?

As you can see the end result is phenomenal and its only tied on using fishing wire (or so it looks)

ac802Meshwheel3.jpg


AC802Meshwheel2.jpg


Andy

hi super, regarding this technique of yours tying the "screen thingy" there, is it effective so far? or is it better to drill holes?
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
VaughnH;26502 said:
Suggestion: Big holes work better than little holes. But, little paddles have room for very few big holes. That is part of the problem.

Also, using a hot finishing nail to melt holes in the paddles is better than trying to drill them.

thanks for the info vaughn

saw your pictures of the holes you made in the pink impeler,
how's it doing so far? with 4 holes on the small impeler does it provide good co2 ppm?
or did you make another bigger one?
 

VaughnH

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 24, 2005
3,011
94
48
85
Sacramento, CA
Generals;26522 said:
thanks for the info vaughn

saw your pictures of the holes you made in the pink impeler,
how's it doing so far? with 4 holes on the small impeler does it provide good co2 ppm?
or did you make another bigger one?

I thought it did a pretty good job, but I don't use that method now. I like to try new things - I'm even obsessive about doing so. So, now I am using a Hydor Koralia powerhead for water circulation, and under that is a mini CO2 reactor, made from a Hagen Elite Mini Underwater Filter at PETCO, which generates tiny bubbles that the Koralia pump blows around the tank. This system works too. In fact, there are many, many different ways to introduce CO2 into the tank, either as mist or dissolved into the water or both. I would consider a system using a Koralia unit, with CO2 somehow directly injected into it as a mist being one of the best.
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
oh so 2 powerheads inside the tank to provide more circulation, and the hagen elite mini fitted with the venturi reactor principle?

as for me im thinking of just using the sump return pump to diffuse the co2 to simplify things... kinda dont want to see so much equipment inside the tank.
Also it adds up to more power consumption..... while using just one pump to diffuse and push return water to the tank would be much simpler and economical....
so im still exploring with it....

do you think what supercoley did (attaching a screen like thingy to the impeler) worked?
im thinking of that also since i find it hard to bore holes in the impeler.
 

VaughnH

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 24, 2005
3,011
94
48
85
Sacramento, CA
Attaching a piece of that screen to the powerhead rotors I have wouldn't work. The rotor fits the cavity to closely to allow room for the screen. Notice that that rotor has no shaft on one end - mine have shaft extensions on both ends. That is why I didn't try it.
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
oh, mine also had a shaft but has room for the screen.
i don't know if it worked for supercoley.

i tried tying up a screen to mine, and run the motor into a basin, cant see clearly the whether the bubbles produced has any difference in size though. the reflection of the water makes it hard to discern.
 

SuperColey1

Guru Class Expert
Feb 17, 2007
503
0
16
46
Lincoln, UK
The 'screen' thingy was from someone elses tank as was the marine bubbles picture. I never tried this method. I have in fact gone away from the whole needle wheel concept as is descrived in this post and rather than geting the MP400 to suck in the bubbles and chop them up I have positioned it to blow across the top of my ceramic diffusor which then distributes the bubbles all over the tank.

Is working exceptionally well for me at the moment.

I never really had a problem with the Rhinox 2k diffusor, but was experimenting with this method which did work well. The new position just sems to work better and as the bubbles are nice and small from the Rhinox they don't really need chopping up any (I bleach clean the diffusor disc weekly at water change time)

Andy
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
@supercoley
so you're saying the the needle wheel concept described in this thread worked well with you too?
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,695
736
113
I've gone pretty much all venturi as I can take the powerhead out of the tank entirely whether I have a canister or a a wet/dry sump etc.

Since the venturi is in line or feed into the return pump, the mix and blowing around of the mist is already in one efficient flow source.

No need to add something else in the tank.

Also, for smaller tanks, a simple Adaptor tee works well and does not reduce flow rates at all. If you have a longer return line, then the bubbles will get more dissolved and ground up, larger tanks with more pump power: mazzei work well.

Sumps can be feed from a dual needle wheel impeller style method, feed the CO2 into a small powerhead or needle wheel Gen X pump, then feed the outflow directly into the main return pump intake.

Or you can use a small mazzei(still need the pump to drive it, so may as well use a needle wheel for this)

If you like a diffuser disc in the tank, then that's fine as well.
But they all do the same thing when correctly set up.
For smaller tanks without canisters, the disc are fine/practical.

Regards,
Tom barr
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
thanks for that info tom
when you say that the venturi is in line or feed into the return pump, do you mean it is tightly piped to the intake of the return pump wherein the return pump only sucks water from said venturi.... or would the return pump suck air from said venturi as well as from other portions of water in the final compartment of the sump?

also, i would appreciate if you can explain what is a mazzei....?
sorry... im a newbie hehe

im planning to just put the co2 injected directly at the intake of my rio 2100 pump... and the return pipe is around 6feet distance from the pump output....
do you think this is enough to dissolve the co2 into the water and allow plants to maximize absorption of it?
by injecting directly into the return pump, it makes me have less equipments to maintain and makes the whole system simpler.... and also i wont need to rig up something like the venturi whether in the sump or in the tank, since the materials are not readily available in my part of the world....=)

your comments will be highly appreciated...
 

Generals

Prolific Poster
Jun 27, 2008
36
0
6
Tom Barr;26589 said:
Also, for smaller tanks, a simple Adaptor tee works well and does not reduce flow rates at all. If you have a longer return line, then the bubbles will get more dissolved and ground up, larger tanks with more pump power: mazzei work well.

regarding the mentioned adaptor tee, do you mean a tee that is in the return pipe?
could you elaborate further?
sorry i kind of didn't understand this....

or do you mean a tee placed after the venturi reactor?
 

Left C

Lifetime Members
Sep 26, 2005
2,500
1
36
69
Burlington, NC
I don't know if people are still looking, but ...

PremiumAquatics.com ordered too many Eheim Compact Marine Pumps 1103 - Needle Wheel Version and they are having a clearance sale. They are $129.99.

** Included 4 suction feet Connection on pressure side with G 1 Connection on suction side with G 1 WITHOUT diffuser and installation material

These pumps can flow as low as 211 gph and as high as 713 gph. They can be used in the water or out of the water.

http://www.eheim.de/eheim/inhalte/index.jsp?key=liniendetail_28399_ehen

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=EH-1103220&Category_Code=Clearance
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jarthel

Junior Poster
Nov 15, 2009
23
0
1
can someone please point me to the whole DIY project? all I see are pictures of modded impeller :(

thank you
 

jarthel

Junior Poster
Nov 15, 2009
23
0
1
thanks for the link.

but I'm still confused. how is the whole diffuser setup? thanks again :)