This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Algaefix, by API

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by Tom Barr, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    I have recently done a few test on 3 tanks with this product. Like ALL algae killers in a bottle, this does NOT grow plants.
    So it does not solve the root problem. Nor will make the tank look great with thriving growth.
    This point cannot be stressed enough.

    That said, once the root issue is considered and treatment implemented, such products can be of use along with manual cleaning and good general care.
    The label states this on this product for the most part. It also clearly states it will kill inverts like shrimp. It did not kill any pest snails I've tested on so far (Physa sp pond snails, MTS etc).

    Algae that it kills off:
    Spirogyra: quite effective after about 3-4 days of treatment, a week later, no new growth even with increased high light.
    Caldphora: seemed to get rid of the small amount mixed in on driftwood and moss.
    GDA: seems to have helped clear up one tank. Could be just good care. But many who have battled GDA are not so lucky, they might give it a try and report back.
    Oedgonium: have not tested nor had this one for years now.
    BBA: label suggest it can kill this one, not sure, but if it kills the Spirogyra, it's likely.
    GSA: generally if it kills the higher green algae species, it'll kill this one. GSA is no longer present and there are no algae eaters in the tank for over a week now at very high light.

    The product does not appear to harm fish or any plant species I've tested. I assumed moss would be the most likely to be harmed, but Xmas and Fissidens are fine.
    Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' was also not harmed at all.
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Directly On Thread Topic--Not Being Contentious Or Funny

    Hi,

    For what it is worth
    :eek:


    • API AlgaeFix is a 4.5% solution of Poly(oxyethylene) (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene dichloride,
    • Busan 77, a pesticide, a 60% solution,
    • 1-part Busan 77 to 13⅓-parts water, yields a solution of 4.5% Poly(oxyethylene) (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene dichloride.

    Again, for what it is worth, though obviously not scientific.
    ;)
    • I found the same thing as Tom did, in fact I would say devastating to green algae, including
    • Oedogonium, which seemed to disintegrate.
    • Green spot, under magnification looked like little leaking balloons,
      • have not looked at green dust algae specifically.
    • Seems effective against at least two forms of red algae, though infected leaves seem generally lost.
      • I have not been able to try it on enough red algae to say for sure.

    I am not sure how effective AlgaeFix is against cyanobacteria and may require a bit higher dosing.

    I have not been doing this long enough to form an opinion as to lasting effects, though it would seem that with appropriate changes this might give an aquarist a “mulligan.”
    :highly_amused:

    I have noted enough drops in dissolved oxygen (DO) to make me think additional aeration, especially overnight when dosing is a good idea.

    This rather surprised me as with Tom’s observation I could see no effect on various mosses.

    When used at label dosing I have seen no harm to my pet snails (Physa sp.), biological filters, or shrimp.
    :)

    I have noted a reduction in copepod and rotifer populations.

    I would say that if you choose to go this route, dose carefully and make sure you have some understanding of the underlying problems.

    Biollante
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    I've heard a few positive reports, but not enough stats really to form an overall opinion.
    As is the case with many algae treatments, what works well for one person, often does not for others.
    I've yet to hear of someone NOT having decent results killing the algae with this product ......yet.
     
  4. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    I don't have enough courage to try this in my tank, yet, but Algaefix might prove to be a good tool for ridding a tank of GDA. GDA is probably one of the more problematic algaes for the common hobbyist--or at least the one I find hardest to eradicate via targeting root cause.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    It did well with hairgrass moss HC stems. I see no reason why it would harm any thing in your tank Matt
     
  6. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    #6 dutchy, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Water does cloud after adding it, I'm sure there's some depression of O2.
    Removing all the algae you can 1st, then a 50% or larger water change........this should prevent that and it's recommended on the label.

    The poster said it worked in 15-20 min, no.......something is wrong there.
    And the water was clear.

    I've used it on 4 tanks and it never did either of these.

    1.Water had a white haze that went away after a few hours.
    2. Algae took 3-5 days to slowly die off.

    Most of the other threads could have been avoided by doing water changes before and after treatment.
    The koi guy on MFK's example is the best case. Miles on MFK's also had a good response.

    I have not lost any fish, I have rubber lip plecos, Tetras, and the like.
    Same types of fish some of those folks had.
    All my tanks have wet/dry filters etc.

    I do large frequent water changes etc.
    I agree the label needs changed however.

    Dose makes the poison, but general care/before, after and during treatment does also.
    Caffeine is deadly poison also, but because we drink small amounts, we get a good effect rather than lethal.
    No one has much issue with that.

    Still, it's good to know, thanks Dutchy.
     
  8. Forumsnow

    Forumsnow Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    I used a half dose squirted directly on the GSA/thread algae and it was all gray mush by the time I got home from work, one treatment. I put it in around 6am and got home around 5 to find it all dead, this was after one treatment. I feel I had it on the outs to begin with though. But I battled with it for a solid 6 months before that. No matter the added co2, raised lights or added flow, nothing would get rid of it all. I feel this product gave me that final push to completely rid it. I have two dwarf puffers and 2 ottos in the tank and none of them seemed bothered and none of the plants were effected. I did do a 50% water change and good filter clean when I got home though. The algae was such mush only the vac would remove it, tooth brush and tweezers would not work. Otis over week later and I still see no signs of it's return.

    In summary I do not think this product will help you if you do not ccorrect the root cause. But I think it is great fir giving you that final push.
     
  9. Paul G

    Paul G Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    20
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    I've used this product, actually quite often in the last year.

    It does kill Cyano (BGA), but not nearly as effectively as EM, which works in 12 hrs.

    I think perhaps it has helped suppress various algaes and bought time to address issues, but is not a certain sledgehammer. I have seen no detrimental effects to fish or plants.
     
  10. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Doesn't ADA make something similar to algaefix? I wonder if it's the same chemical...hmmm
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Could be. Seems if you did 1/2 strength and did it 2 days on, 2 days off, over say 6-8 days........this would be less toxic to non targets.
    I read all the comments on the product on the links and forums(8 threads total).
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Also, regarding algae control chemical and killing fish and poisons:

    1. Excel/Easy Carb...........many long threads on how to kill your fish and shrimp with excel and toast your plants. At least is grows plants when used correctly
    2. H2O2, plenty of death examples
    3. Bleach, come on.........
    4. Copper......

    So a biocide use is determined effective when people follow the dosing suggestions correctly and adhere to good care before and after.
    Water changes are a must. Trimming off any algae prior, a must.
    Correcting or at least trying to correct the root issue, a must.
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    (C10H24N2O)n·2Cl Or (C10H24Cl2N2O)n

    Hi Dutchy,

    I am assuming you are quoting from CHEMWATCH 4656-4. Issue Date: 14-Oct-2005, Section 12 - ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION.

    There is somewhat more recent information available as part of the US EPA’s Reregistration Eligibility Decision (RED) memorandum for Busan 77, dated September 30. 2007. Section 9, pages 21-27 of 56 is probably of primary interest to us.
    :)

    Whether you call it

    • Poly(oxyethylene) (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene dichloride, (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl or
    • dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate, (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]Cl[SUB]2[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]
    • it is the same stuff,
    • a heavy molecule,
    • a polymer that forms long chains and
    • Apparently acts principally via polyelectrolyte adsorption.

    As Tom has pointed out we use many toxins along the way, it is all about quantities, conditions and risk management.

    I am a long way from actually recommending the stuff. However, what I have seen so far impresses me and seems to avoid the systemic problems associated with blackouts and misuse of various drugs.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  14. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Hi Biollante,

    Thnx for explaining. I might actually try it to clean up and finally eradicate the GDA.
     
    #14 dutchy, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2012
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Well, the selectivity for any algae control method is the main key point.

    There are no alternatives for hair algae, Cladophora, and GDA, GSA really other than root issue stuff, but that rarely gets rid of the mess that's in the tank at that moment, even after a lot of labor and cleaning.
    So something that kills those, but leaves fish and plants alone.........is well worth a good look.

    My main issue was does it harm plants in any way.
    I think the answer there is no, not really.

    Fish?
    Yes, if you over dose or do poor care.

    Shrimp?
    Yes, it will kill them.

    Snails? Unfortunately no, it does not kill them.
     
  16. Forumsnow

    Forumsnow Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Agreed completely. It is not a cure, just that last push to clear the last straglers. It has been well over a week and I see no signs of a return. I got my tank growing good and basically stopped new GSA growth but could not completely rid myself of it. This product simply gives you that last nudge. I think post major water changes are very important with good filter cleaning. There was alot of dead algae and I think if I did it clean it up quickly it may have led to other problems.

    Again not a cure all.
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,692
    Likes Received:
    725
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Update on the 350 Gal client's tank: no GDA.

    So in less than a week, all gone and has not returned since.

    There is a slight green film but this has been there each week and you have to look close for it. I wipe it weekly anyway, but the client never sees it.
    The GDA came back in 2-3 days you could not see into the tank at all, covered the rock, the wood etc.

    So that's 2-3 species of green algae this stuff killed effectively.
    No failures yet, no dead fish etc, no burned plants etc.

    After 2 weeks post treatment, the plants have only grown in and become more established.
    Very little algae.
     
  18. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Pressing My Luck

    Hi,

    For the record I am not recommending this, yet, I have seen enough to cause me to ask one of the kids to give it a proper look, probably won’t get started till after mid-terms… :calm:

    Based on my entirely unscientific observations the reason others and I have not seen deaths of finfish, shrimp or even our beloved pond snails when dosing API AlgaeFix in accordance with label directions. Is that the active ingredient is heavy and gets heavier. :rolleyes:

    It appears most of the (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl ends up in the substrate rather quickly. :highly_amused:

    Tom Barr’s experience varies a little from mine, which is closer to Forumsnow’s. :)

    My guess is (and was) that Tom’s tanks are richer in nutrients; he likely mists CO[SUB]2[/SUB] and has far better circulation than the tanks I dosed.:highly_amused:

    Calculating label dosing gives us about 1.19-ppm (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl, I had a dosing error (failed to account for displaced water) on the first two tanks I dosed, I had dosed closer to 1.26-ppm (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl, I think it is safe to say a margin of error (at least 6%) was built in. The next two tanks were right at dosing rates, the results were, great in all tanks, I did large water changes and required one follow on treatment in three of the tanks.

    I did not change the water or scrape and clean algae prior to treatment, as I wanted to see the effect it had. I noticed a little haze in all tanks, but it went away quickly. ;)

    Tom Barr’s posts caused me to think (darned painful) and to look at how API AlgaeFix acted. :eek-new:

    I tried mixing a little API AlgaeFix into beakers with aquarium water of varying quality, immediately I noted the gunkier the water the more little white curly cues formed and went straight to the bottom. I even used some distilled water that had been sitting around a while and noticed white flecks that formed and went away quickly. That told me the distilled water was contaminated and sure enough no visible flecks once I used fresh distilled water.:)

    In the dirtier water the snow-white curly cues turned brown and dirty looking, the water also clarified. :highly_amused:

    Given (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl is polymer and forms chains, further that (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl is miscible, it is likely that polyelectrolyte adsorption is in play.

    So, I grabbed a liter beaker and put some mosses, a sprig of Hygrophila difformis and Bolbitis heudelotii, I grabbed some oedogonium, scraped off some good GDA and a small rock with GSA. Put in four of my beloved pet pond snails. I added 23-ml soda water, 955-ml filtered aquarium water and [SUP]1[/SUP]∕[SUB]38.5[/SUB]-ml API AlgaeFix. (This works out to ~1.19-ppm (C[SUB]10[/SUB]H[SUB]24[/SUB]N[SUB]2[/SUB]O)[SUB]n[/SUB]·2Cl and >30-ppm CO[SUB]2[/SUB].) Placed under a 10-watt 6700k bulb, 12-hours on.
    Horror of horrors in a flurry of curlycues my beloved snails dropped to the bottom.

    • After two hours the water went crystal clear, the mosses, got distinctly greener.
      • The oedogonium had disintegrated, literally could not identify any.
    • A couple of clumps of GDA appeared to have reduced by 10% or so…
      • I thought it might be my imagination. :rolleyes:
    • Roughly 14-hours later the GDA was down +40%
      • The GSA seemed significantly reduced.
      • The snails seemed dead, on their side even looked to be rotting.:(
        • Then I noticed movement, looked really sick but one started to latch on to some nearby Hygrophila difformis. (I have seen this before while unscientifically observing plant-sanitizing methods.:rolleyes:)
    • 20 hours, all four snails are up and about, appearing little worse for the wear, I scraped some material off the shell of one of the snails, it appears some polymers adhered to parts of the shell, I am going to guess this was previously damaged shell...
      • 90% or so of the GDA was gone
      • 50% of the GSA appeared brown and disintegrating.
      • The mosses and fern seemed brighter than ever (this rather surprises me), Hygrophila difformis looks like I photo shopped it, stunning.
      • There is some black, bristly (under a magnifying glass) growth on the rock I had not noticed earlier that seems to be dying or at least beginning to release, I am not sure but I think it is a red algae.

    Since I had seem absolutely no distress of any sort on the part of any of my pet pond snails and one of the tanks had perhaps a thousand adults, now I am thinking (real danger, real pain) that perhaps the bare glass bottom of the beaker has something to do with pseudo-deaths of the snails.

    So I set up a dozen quart mason jars with various substrates… For another post if there is any interest.

    • 40 hours GDA is little brown husks
    o There is a tiny bit of GSA on some rock the remnants look brown and blown out.
    o A tiny bit of BGA I had not noticed is still going, though I have no comparison.
    o The tiny black bristle stuff on the rock seems dead.
    o The mosses are beautiful, perhaps even a bit of growth.

    :cool:
    Biollante
     
    #18 Biollante, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2012
  19. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Interesting and sounds good. I was kind of afraid to use it but will as soon as I get it.
     
  20. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    13
    Local Time:
    3:04 AM
    Just to double check here, can this be used safely with shrimp at all?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice