Algae

[Deiota]

hello!
i have

algae and is getting worst. also have green spot!
what is it? what may be the cause?
What can I do to eleminate it=?
216L tank
Co2 DIY
PH 6.8
KH 6
NO3 5
PO4 0.5
NH4 0
Fertilization:
Tropica Nutrition + - 5 ml every day
Potassium Chloride KCI- 10 ml every day
algae : green spot increased a lot these past days!!!
should I fertilize with N, K or P? which quantity?
Should I fertilize with Micro? Quantity?

please help!
I'm getting nuts about it!!

 

[Philosophos]

Is 216 your column or your total tank capacity? I'll run over all the numbers with you if I can get a column estimate.

-Philosophos

 

[Deiota]

hi!
tank capacity!
txs

 

[Philosophos]

So lets say about 190 of that is actually water then.

Here's the formula I'm using in a spreadsheet to calculate your nutrients:

Column Concentration = (Weekly Dose in ml/Column Size in L)*(TPN Density of 1040mg/ml)*(% of Element By Weight/100)

Here's NPK and Fe:

N: 2.567157895
P: 0.191578947
K: 1.973263158
Fe: 0.134105263


You're not adding enough N or p this way, though your Fe is on the low end of adequate. You'd need to dose 8-10x as much TPN+ to get adequate levels.

Now as for your K+ from KCL, could I get the concentration of the solution?

Your micros should be taken care of already, though adding a little flourish comprehensive now and then doesn't hurt if you're concerned.

-Philosophos

 

[Deiota]

So lets say about 190 of that is actually water then.

Here's the formula I'm using in a spreadsheet to calculate your nutrients:

Column Concentration = (Weekly Dose/Column Size)*(TPN Weight/Volume)*(% of Element By Weight/100)

Here's NPK and Fe:

N: 2.567157895
P: 0.191578947
K: 1.973263158
Fe: 0.134105263


You're not adding enough N or p this way, though your Fe is on the low end of adequate. You'd need to dose 8-10x as much TPN+ to get adequate levels.

Now as for your K+ from KCL, could I get the concentration of the solution?

Your micros should be taken care of already, though adding a little flourish comprehensive now and then doesn't hurt if you're concerned.

-Philosophos

200gr. of KCl to 1L water
1 ml to 100l gives me 1ppm (in my case 0.5 ppm according to 200l tank).
I put 10ml so I get 5 ppm right?

 

[Deiota]

Column Concentration = (Weekly Dose in ml/Column Size in L)*(TPN Density of 1040mg/ml)*(% of Element By Weight/100)

Here's NPK and Fe:

N: 2.567157895
P: 0.191578947
K: 1.973263158
Fe: 0.134105263


You're not adding enough N or p this way, though your Fe is on the low end of adequate. You'd need to dose 8-10x as much TPN+ to get adequate levels.

are you saying that I should put 5x10 ml instead ?
please notice that my doses are daily not weekly!

 

[Philosophos]

I was calculating for 35ml a week since you said daily. This is how I calculated it for nitrogen:

PPM N = (35/190)*1040*(1.34/100)

1040 = density of TPN+ 1040mg = 1ml
35 = your weekly dose
190 = capacity
1.34 = percent nitrogen

Now, as for potassium...

Your KCl mix is going to give you:

K: 39.09831 g/mol
Cl: 35.4532 g/mol

KCl= 74.55151 g/mol
K+ in KCl = 39.09831/74.55151

= 200*(39.09831/74.55151)
= 104.8893845mg/ml K+ in your solution

In your tank your dosing ends up resulting in:

=(104.8893845*10*7)/190
=38.64345745mg/L K+

Your K+ dosing is pretty high. You could get away with adding more like 20ppm which would be 103.510407g of KCl in 1L, dosed the same way. That or just dose half as much for now. This level presumes something like 15-20ppm of NO3 dosed per week once you've got things on track, and doesn't account for what TPN+ is adding right now.

-Philosophos

 

[Philosophos]

ooops, I didn't count the fact that NO3 and PO4 are given as pure N and P on TPN's label. I'll do recalculations now and edit this post when I'm done.

*Update*
Ok, so I tacked a little conversion for weight in PO4 and NO3 rather than just N and P.

NO3: 11.36431848
PO4: 0.587417714

Your PO4 and N would be improved by doubling what you're dosing, perhaps a little less; 75% more.

-Philosophos

 

[Deiota]

let me get it right...
I should reduce to half the dose of K (5ml), at most 7,5 ml (75%) and should double Tropica Nutrition + to 10ml right?
thanks for your effort!

 

[Philosophos]

Yes, that should give you good nutrient ratios and quantities. You may want to keep an eye out for PO4 deficiencies; it is possible to end up with deficiencies in tanks with a low bio load/very little feeding with the amount you're dosing.

-Philosophos

 

[Biollante]

Dad-Gummed Smart

Hi,

For what it is worth I agree entirely with Philosophos, he is pretty-dad-gummed smart, and really good at that fancy calculating.

I come up with the same result in my inept sort of way.

I would add ¼ teaspoon of MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom Salt) each day as well.

Biollante

 

[scottward]

Isn't the whole idea behind EI to get rid of the test kits and make all the calculations unnecessary?

Why not just dose EI to rule out nutrient issues?

 

[Philosophos]

The nice thing is that you're not forced to stay within tight guide lines for EI; it's simply the concept of non-limiting nutrients through fertilization and PAR control with water change schedules that keep nutrition ranges in check. It's meant to be malleable; to be written in to and modified to meet the users needs. For many, it means a basic start and ignoring test kits, for others it means tearing through research papers and precision dosing.

Lately people have been coming here with dosing questions that require some math if they want them answered. I just happen to know how to do some of it, so I try to answer as much as I can.

I'll even teach if people bother to ask.

What I'm not here to do is to tell people to do something easier just because they need help trying things a different way.

-Philosophos

 

[Biollante]

Strong Suit

Hi,

Yeah I am always impressed with Philosophos with all them dad-gummed fancy calculating formula things.

Me I liked PMDD on account of my only having to rely on one test.

Then this EI thing and I don’t need to know nothing, I just read labels and such.

Knowing nothing is my strong suit.

My real advices is get dry fertilizers, dose on the high side and watch your aquarium, which is kind of what aquaria are for.

Minimum 50% weekly water change, on water change day, ¾ teaspoon GH Booster.

On water change day, third and sixth day:
• KN03 ½ teaspoon 3 times a week
• KH2P04 1/16 teaspoon 3 times a week
• K2SO4 1/8 teaspoon 3 times a week
• MgSO4.7H2O ½ teaspoon 3 times a week

On second, fourth and seventh day:
• CSM+B ½ teaspoon 3 times a week

Not only is it simpler, it is much cheaper.

Biollante

 

[Tom Barr]

I think there are different goals, as Philosophos,suggests/implies.

That's the nice thing with a concept vs a set in stone "turn key system". I'm not trying to make money with EI never considered it even.
I do not sell advertising here either.This is solely for hobbyists, this web sites etc, everything.

I think a no brain dosing method using water changes is a simple easy to do method for aquarist, they already know the water change method.

They can stick with this is they want, slowly change a thing at a time and see and observe.

Other's might test a little here and there and modify accordingly.

Some nutty person like myself might go way off and test everything.
I'll test the min and the upper bounds.
Few test upper bounds.
Never met anyone yet except for CO2 or light.
But not for nutrients.

Never.

When looking at nutrients, there are two extremes, not just one.
This way you have an upper and lower reference to compare.
You also need excellent control, other wises there is no independence in the test or observations.

Takes lot more work, thinking and care to do this.

You also have to be willing to risk fish, shrimps, plants or algae blooms etc to test what your hypothesis is.

Most don't wanna.

So few are that interested, but it's good to know and see that some tested it, and that a few others then later tried higher/lower levels and found that they worked with similar responses.

So you can chose how much you want to do and get involved it.
Some go whole hog, others might never go beyond some basic stuff to get by.
We cannot judge others on these points, they are what they are and it's their right to be so.

We can argue which method/set of methods is/are best suited given and set of trade offs to achieve their goal/s.



Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Deiota]

thanks for all your help!
I started 10ml Tropica + and stayed at 10ml K (since tomorrow I'll do a reset)!
I'll keep you posted on the results!
one more question... the greenspots on plant leafs... how can I remove it? do the otto or neritina clean it? I have some plants attached by GSA.
I'll clean the glass tomorrow just before water change!

 

[Philosophos]

Increased PO4 helps to reduce GSA. KH2PO4 would do the job best.

This is why many of us dose from compounds; by the time we've suplemented any name brand fertilizer enough, we've already got most of the compounds needed to just make our own then use a premix for micros. In some cases, we even start tinkering with the micros

Great post by the way Tom, I always enjoy hearing a little on the philosophy behind a method.

-Philosophos

 

[Deiota]

I'm considering doing my own fertilizers instead of using Tropica's.
I'm just wondering if it's not too early to do so... since I begun with this hobby a few months ago!
perhaps I'll go for this challenge!

 

[Deiota]

HI
please help me identify this algae:

what may be the cause? and the remedy?
thanks

 

[Philosophos]

If you can bake even the simplest recipes, you can follow basic directions for DIY dry ferts. It's just a matter of teaspoons.

The algae I couldn't put a binomial on, but it looks like some kind of hair algae. As usual the solution to the problem is assuring proper light:CO2 ratios. Spot treating as a method of dosing excel would help, but unless that's java moss it will probably do more harm than good.

-Philosophos