Algae after dosing EI

GillesF

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Hi guys

Someone I know from my blog has been testing the Estimative Index (dry ferts) and reporting algae since the start of this project.

I know that:

1) There's no correlation between nutrient levels in the water column and algae (Bachmann)
2) Liebig's law of the minimum
3) Based on the two points above + EI dry fert dosing, the cause of algae is more likely poor CO2

But how come this appears after adding the dry ferts? Does it make Liebig's law more evident? Or does it amplifies the poor CO2?

Cheers,
GillesF
 

GillesF

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Here's a picture of the algae:
radc2e.jpg


I'm not sure but this looks like BGA? Or is it brown algae? The structure resembles BGA, but not the colour.


BGA does make more sense. Looking at the picture, I can see some plant leaf die off which might point to an overload of organic waste, triggering the BGA?
 

dutchy

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First of all there's no way of knowing if the person in question messed up things. He SAID he did EI, but did he really?
Second, it makes liebig's law more evident. Nutrient consumption increased, but another one ran out. Possibly NO3 which induced the BGA.

Could also be high organic loading, not cleaning filters enough, waterchanges etc. That's not a deficiency of the method, more of the one looking at the tank. :)
 

GillesF

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Well, I've instructed him how to dose it on his tank. I can only trust him on his dosing routine to be honest ... If he's been dosing as I said, NO3 shouldn't be the problem.

He's a shop owner and I'm a very regular visitor (I practically live there!). He had read about the EI on my blog and got interested to try this himself. The tank he's dosing is actually the one with all the plants he sells (would not be my choice as a "test tank" but hey).

I often see BGA in this type of tanks in other shops too, probably due to the heavy organic load of all the plants coming in and out?
If this would be a CO2 related algae, would the EI dosing make the deficiency bigger?
 
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dutchy

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Yes, because plants will grow faster, the demand for CO2 is also increases. This is also the most common mistake aquarists make and do not recognise.
 

Gilles

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Interestingly enough i had the same discussion with also a LFS shop about their planted tanks. If you ever went to Heems in Heemstede (NL) there plant banks really flourish and are very healthy. Off course they only have Tropica plants, but nevertheless they are all lush and colourfull, just the way they should be IMHO. At the LFS i am speaking they have a step based planted tank (from high tank to every time a lower tank to the lowest tank). Even they cannot get their tanks clean and free of algae.. They tried CO2 / NO3 dosing / PO4 dosing and removers etc... Maybe the stuff that nursery's grow the plants in / or spray on the plants causes this algae?
 

GillesF

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@Dutchy: thanks

@Gilles: maybe this is also related to the type of aquarium? Generally they have very high lighting, a lot of plants and very little to no flow (I think). This leads to high demand by the plants but the stuff just doesn't get there --> die off --> not cleaned well --> BGA?
 

Tom Barr

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Gilles;94502 said:
They tried CO2 / NO3 dosing / PO4 dosing and removers etc... Maybe the stuff that nursery's grow the plants in / or spray on the plants causes this algae?

No, the nurseries all use emergent growth for cultivation except for a few cases.
They also use labor and control points to prevent algae.

LFS's generally do not have the interest or labor to deal with algae and cleaning plant sales tanks.
this is often an issue for ADA stores, but they tend to specialize in plants only. If the LFS also does most of the sales with Fish only and reef/marine, they generally will not have the labor required to keep up with planted tanks.

I think good management: eg low light, lots of CO2, a few algae eaters etc, decent non messy sediment can be helpful. Light dosing to keep the plants from doing really poorly.
I'm not sure I'd do full EI for that, more like 1/4 EI. Par: about 40 umol. Water changes after every restocking event or once most of the plants have sold. A wet/dry filter and a nice easy to clean prefilter for catching all the dead leaves that are produced.Adding non limiting ferts(eg, removing nutrients from any growth limiting potential) will drive demand for CO2 upwards quite a bit. Anywhere from 2-10X. If you remove 2-10X the CO2, and add a lot of new plants trying to adapt to submersed conditions, have lower stems rotting etc, have a lot light(because it'll draw attention and you can sell it for more)......this is a good way to get algae.
Ferts are just one of the issue.
 

Yo-han

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The lfs I work uses low light, no nutrients at all except tap water. Because all plants are grown emersed it is not possible to add nutrients, co2 and everything because this way the plants will grow harder and loose their emersed leaves faster.empty stems. The real trick is to keep the water cold so the plants grow slow and don't loose their old leaves and algae grows slower as well. This way plants will stay nice for a few weeks depending on the specie.
 

Tom Barr

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Basically it's called refrigeration:)

Works though.

I do it with extra trimmings and plants outside in the garage, temps are about 55-60F.
 

GillesF

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Today I found out that I was accidentally dosing 10x EI on my nano (in start-up). Guess what: no algae whatsoever :D

Too bad some people still refuse to believe that it does not cause the algae.
 

Tom Barr

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GillesF;94696 said:
Today I found out that I was accidentally dosing 10x EI on my nano (in start-up). Guess what: no algae whatsoever :D

Too bad some people still refuse to believe that it does not cause the algae.

I think many have made similar mistakes and had similar results.
And others have followed it carefully and ended up with algae and blame the dosing, rather....than the other factors.

This can be said for EVERY method of dosing.
What can we infer from these facts?

That dosing is the not the main factor in algae, it MUST BE SOME OTHER FACTOR/CAUSE THAT LEADS TO ALGAE.
It does not say what this factor that causes algae is, it just says what it is not.

Clearly we have examples where every method of dosing works well. Those are the references and the factors other than dosing should be looked at when comparing methods/success etc.
 
S

serrano007

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hi, i ve 4 tank hi tech nd EI method, nano 15, 25, nd 100 gall, de 100 gal ve 58 ppm de CO2, the others nex to 30 ppm nd flutance sometime.
belive me than only algae problem was in 15 nd 25 gal when CO2 DIY get down
the 100 gall, have 2 month nd never had one algae issue!View attachment 4319

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365743484.089178.jpg