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Ageing Water

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by GR1KTR, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

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    I've come across a few hobbyists who age their water for 2 days to 1 week before a water change. This is most common amongst advanced shrimp keepers. I don't particularly understand why this is necessary, and wanted to throw it out to everyone for feedback.

    If you add something like Seachem Prime, match GH KH and pH values, use a bubbler and a heater, your water should be ready in 24 hours. Why leave it longer?
     
  2. Solcielo lawrencia

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    Probably back in the days when water was only chlorinated, not chloriminated, so leaving it out allowed the chlorine gas to outgas. Why ppl still do it? Maybe for the same reason why some people wear their lucky shirt to watch a football game.
     
  3. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

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    So it's nothing more than superstition? Is there any logic behind it?
     
  4. Kathy328i

    Kathy328i Lifetime Members
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    It is not superstition when your tap water is disinfected with chloramine. Nowawadays amquell takes care of chloramine. Prior to that, the method was to let the chloramine or for that matter chlorine dissipate into the surrounding air. If you do not add something to remove either of those two disinfectants, then your shrimp will suffer.
     
  5. Solcielo lawrencia

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    I don't think aging water for a week will allow chloramine to break down fast enough. According to wiki:

    "Chloramine, like chlorine, can be removed by boiling and aging. However, time required to remove the chloramine is much longer than that of chlorine. The time required to remove half of the chloramine (half-life) from water by boiling is 26.6 hours, whereas the half-life of free chlorine in boiling water is only 1.8 hours."

    It's a lot faster to use dechlorinator.
     
  6. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    Not really too impressed with Amquel. Prime is a much better product. I've seen fish and shrimp react to Amquel. Not impressed with Kordon products generally speaking. Use Prime if you have expensive shrimp.
     
  7. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

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    So unless you are purposely avoiding using chemical treatments, Seachem Prime should have your water ready in 24 hours. If you want to age your water without Prime it just takes longer for no real benefit..

    Edit: Chloramine won't break down within a one week time-frame anyhow, so you could also be doing damage to your fauna if you don't use a product that removes chloramine. That seems like a very important thing to know!
     
    #7 GR1KTR, Sep 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
  8. reef12

    reef12 Member

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    I do water changes 25 to 30 % every week straight out and straight back in, Prime added as to the total tank size say 125 gallon well enough prime added as to the original size , even though only say 35 gallons removed, never a problem at all.

    THat was back in the Day Chlorine, now almost all use Chloramine which has to be broken down , my Water district just switched to it and sent out a letter saying so.

    Jeff
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I do weekly (or more) large (80%) water changes on 3 tanks right out of the tap and use Prime and no issues. I cannot store the 150 galllons this requires for a week in my apt, so is a practical issue for most folks. I dose as Jeff does for the tank volume, regardless of how much actual volume is replaced. Never an issue.

    I had no prime some months back and realized it when starting the fill of the tank. Within 10 mins and perhaps 10-15 gallons of water, I lost over 135 fish. I now have approx. 10 gals of Prime which is enough for quite some time :)

    If you only need a couple.few gallons, I could do this for special needs, such as shrimp or breeding, but is too impractical for many.
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I do weekly (or more) large (80%) water changes on 3 tanks right out of the tap and use Prime and no issues. I cannot store the 150 galllons this requires for a week in my apt, so is a practical issue for most folks. I dose as Jeff does for the tank volume, regardless of how much actual volume is replaced. Never an issue.

    I had no prime some months back and realized it when starting the fill of the tank. Within 10 mins and perhaps 10-15 gallons of water, I lost over 135 fish. I now have approx. 10 gals of Prime which is enough for quite some time :)

    If you only need a couple.few gallons, I could do this for special needs, such as shrimp or breeding, but is too impractical for many.
     
  11. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    You can connect a hose from your tap and refill directly if you use Seachem Prime. NO need to wait. I'm currently doing daily >50% water changes in my tank since I did a rescape. I have really soft and pure San Francisco water from the Hetch Hetchy water source in the Sierra-Nevada Mountains, but the SFPUC uses Chloramines to treat our water. Prime dechlorinates and breaks chloramines down into smaller components. Prime also binds to these smaller components (ammonia, being one of them). So it's the best water conditioner on the market. It's also great to have on hand for emergencies. You could also buy Seachem SAFE, which is the powdered and concentrated version of Prime.

     
    #11 Matt F., Sep 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2013
  12. rjordan393

    rjordan393 Guru Class Expert

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    I prepare my water one week in advance for a few reasons:
    1. I get rusty water from my hot water supply. So all year, I use the cold water tap for my makeup tanks; a 30 gallon and a 10 gallon plus 6 one gallon bottles.
    2. I like the idea of having it ready in an emergency.
    3. A Seachem technician recommended waiting 48 hours just to be safe before dosing iron as Prime does detoxify iron and once detoxified, it stays detoxified. 48 hours is sufficient for the effects of Prime to wear off. The Prime product does not indicate how much iron is detoxified. So Prime is only used in the makeup tanks.
    4. If I need to remove my plants and fish, then I have two tanks to place them in while I get the main tank back in shape.
    4.
     
  13. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

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    I never knew that Prime detoxified Iron. I usually dose macro straight after a water change, and micros (including Fe) the day following. This works out to about 48 hours after a WC, so I'm not sure whether the Prime would still be active at that stage.

    I saw on the Seachem Forum that Prime works immediately, but I think they stopped short of supporting WCs straight from the tap. Has anyone heard Seachem support this?
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    +1, as I pat my lucky rabbit paw.
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I use to do this for temp issues to get it right for my Quarantine Tanks outside and I often left a few buckets that were decholor'ed full sitting, more for convenience.
    Then I noticed the driftwood worked better and then by passed this and simply tossed driftwood to tannins stain the tank water.
    No need now. Applies to fish and algae also. Marine water is nice to have it pre mixed well on hand etc. But I can mix fast in large tubs and drain and refill quick without issues.

    I think we can say it does no harm, but does it help? Maybe for the human factors. I do not think there's much evidence as far as livestock.
    A grubby tap water, well, etc, pipes.......many have copper pipes, need flushed for 3-5 minutes 1st.........particularly in the line or heated water lines have not been used for awhile.
    Shrimp tanks are small, so doing this is not a great inconvenience.
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I use to do this for temp issues to get it right for my Quarantine Tanks outside and I often left a few buckets that were decholor'ed full sitting, more for convenience.
    Then I noticed the driftwood worked better and then by passed this and simply tossed driftwood to tannins stain the tank water.
    No need now. Applies to fish and algae also. Marine water is nice to have it pre mixed well on hand etc. But I can mix fast in large tubs and drain and refill quick without issues.

    I think we can say it does no harm, but does it help? Maybe for the human factors. I do not think there's much evidence as far as livestock.
    A grubby tap water, well, etc, pipes.......many have copper pipes, need flushed for 3-5 minutes 1st.........particularly in the line or heated water lines have not been used for awhile.
    Shrimp tanks are small, so doing this is not a great inconvenience.
     
  17. rjordan393

    rjordan393 Guru Class Expert

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    I like to expand on my reply.
    Prime detoxifies heavy metals. Heavy metals are defined as those with a specific gravity 5 times or more of water which is 1.
    Cobalt.....................8.92 sg.
    Copper....................8.80 sg.
    Manganese..............7.35 sg.
    Molybdenum............10.2 sg.
    Zinc........................6.9-7.2 sg.
    Nickel.....................8.90 sg.
    Vanadium...............6.11 sg.
    Iron.......................6.7-7.3 sg.
    All of the above are in our trace mixes. So if an aquarist doses traces too soon after adding Prime, then its possible that the traces will become detoxified and no longer available to the plants. Now the questions are: How long does it take for Prime to lose it effects? Is waiting 48 hours overkill? The Seachem technician said to be on the safe side, wait 48 hours. This is why I prepare my water in advance with Prime instead of using the product in my main tank. I find it peculiar that this company does not state on the product, the lasting effects of it. I cannot find their reply on the waiting time but I have another reply about Prime's ability to detoxify heavy metals.
    QUOTE: Prime detoxifies heavy metals by precipitating them out of solution, where they are no longer available. They will not become available again unless the pH drops to a level that is not reasonable for any aquarium environment ( less then 5.0 pH ). UNQUOTE.

    I will send an email to Seachem to ask them to expand on their reply about the waiting time.
     
  18. rjordan393

    rjordan393 Guru Class Expert

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    Well I visited their site and found one of their replies to another aquarist concerning Prime.

    QUOTE: It sounds like you used it in an aquarium which doesn't have livestock yet, in which case it poses no danger. Prime only stays active in a system for about 48 hours. UNQUOTE.
    In other words, each aquarist must guess on his own (depending on how much is used) what the waiting time should be.
     
  19. rjordan393

    rjordan393 Guru Class Expert

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    Well I visited their site and found one of their replies to another aquarist concerning Prime.

    QUOTE: It sounds like you used it in an aquarium which doesn't have livestock yet, in which case it poses no danger. Prime only stays active in a system for about 48 hours. UNQUOTE.
    In other words, each aquarist must guess on his own (depending on how much is used) what the waiting time should be.
     
    #19 rjordan393, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2013
  20. GR1KTR

    GR1KTR Prolific Poster

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    This has gone beyond me now, given that I have plenty more to learn. The debate is helping me learn, so please don't feel like you're intruding if you have something to say. I use Prime at every water change. It is the one thing I own from Seachem at this time. I wouldn't go without it. I'm going to have to live with it for quite some time to come! It's very helpful.

    I will keep reading but I won't be commenting further, unless I'm asked a question :)
     
    #20 GR1KTR, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2013
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