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ADA Fanboism

Discussion in 'Sediment / Substrate' started by AquaticJim, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    ADA Fanboism


    Boy oh boy it's an insidious 'disease' and it's spreading worse than a Windows based virus! And woe behold anybody who has the audacity to question anything ADA on the multitude of aquatic plant forums that are around.

    I truly think fanboism stems from people having to justify paying inordinate amounts of hard earned cash on over priced hobby items......nobody wants to look the fool now do they?
     
  2. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    There is truth to what you are saying. Recently on a forum, someone asked a simple question about using a timer with their CO[SUB]2[/SUB] solenoid. This person asked, "Do you have it come on 2 hours before the lights?" Check out this response by someone. It is a direct quote. I put the Amano comment in bold.
     
  3. pat w

    pat w Member

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    Something my Grandfather told me.

    "Look, Listen, then think for yourself. Narrow minded people are like narrow necked bottles - the less real substance they hold, the more noise it makes coming out." (paraphrased)


    Pat
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Dupla had their fan boy crowd back 20 years ago. When you cannot actively question things, then you are in trouble.

    I have been hammered by many many people over the things I've stated.
    I respond in kind. But I'm not selling a BRAND. I'm not Selling ART.

    I question Amano as much as anyone else. When you place someone on a pedestal, you are a fool. You give all your power and self respect over to that person and no longer have any yourself. Obsequious minions.
    Most of these folks are newbies or are simply repeating whatever ADA marketing told them. They are not independent critical thinkers.
    They seek answers, not questions. I seek questions, not answers. That is the fundamental difference.

    Still, I like the Tanks, but several have had them bust out in the 90 and 120 cm ranges........they are no longer fan boys.........that much I can tell you.
    I like the tanks myself and the style, I like ADA AS, there are knock offs and the local aquarium glass tank makers can make anything I want........but the general overall look and excellent professional pictures......this is the best looking stuff around, so fanboy attitudes will come with the territory

    A scape does not make a method......but it sure helps sell one.
     
  5. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    When I purchased The Optimum Aquarium back in (I think around) 1988 Australia was then a black hole in being able to obtain top notch aquarium gear. I read that book till it nearly literally fell to pieces, I was so dazzled that I didn't recongise then as a "book" on advertising Dupla's products that I had actually forked out money to pay for.
     
  6. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yep. Dupla this, Dupla that. I can buy that locally, nope. Well maybe they have something similar. Ok. Yep. Oooh, no. No, nobody makes a Dupla something or other, just them. Turns out you don't need that Dupla widget, but... If you can't get much to grow well in the tank, then it MUST be your equipment, right? Back then, who knew? I run into people at the pet stores all the time who have no idea you can even get plants to grow in an aquarium or that it must be really hard to do that. I'm not sure the manufacturers want to change that. It really doesn't seem that way, or maybe they're just too focused on the coral guys since they don't seem as though they're happy unless you can get a tan from their lighting two rooms away and upstairs. I guess you market to where the money is.

    -
    S


     
  7. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    Barr Report Fanboy Warning....

    Amen!

    I have to be honest, I probably wouldn't have joined this wonderful planted hobby without some ADA influence. I ran across contest photos when considering an overhaul of my classically cliche' home aquarium. I WANTED that kind of a tank. Before I avoided plants because any I had ever seen looked like crap, half dead rotten things.

    I made a common newby mistake, talked to a guy (an online proprietor) who was in it to sell me stuff, and I spent the money. But I believed he knew how to do it. I had way too much lighting, inefficient CO2 system, poor flow and filtration. All things that lead to a lot of struggles.

    It isn't just ADA, its a lot of other companies/places as well. I think the ADA guidance isn't as bad; October's Aquajournal for example. But being one of more knowledge now, I can parse through the advertisements to find the nuggets of good info. A newby would not, a year ago, I would not. I may not have climbed out of the pit if it wasn't for coming across a forum and plantbrain's scientifically oriented posts. This guy knew what he was talking about and best of all, he wasn't trying to sell me anything!

    I owe a lot to this site for the progress I have made in learning how this is done and I try to share my knowledge, which is really the regurgitated experience and methods of others that I have found to work, as often as I can. I point people here. am I different from a fanboy?
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I agree, ADA's advice is not bad, it's quite good and well illustrated, but folks often do not bother to read those messages, they just think a product will solve all their worries....... it's those that follow. and ADA has brought many new people into this hobby that otherwise......would not be. And ADA has a right to sell their products and market them. But sometimes folks do get quite over zealous. Which is better than suing the customer, selling stuff that just has no use at all and only that type of stuff alone.

    ADA has no control over the Fanboys.
     
  9. tjbuege

    tjbuege Lifetime Charter Member
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    ShadowMac,

    Your story sounds just like my own. My LFS had a few display-only show tanks with beautiful plants, but the correct advice was not forthcoming, and my first attempts were met with miserable failure. Three cheers for Tom Barr and The Barr Report!
     
  10. chopsticks

    chopsticks Prolific Poster

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    Ditto.

    Regards,

    Juan
     
  11. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    [​IMG]

    ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia 9L (Normal)
    Designed to create the image of Amazonia. Create an aquascape depicting the fertile South American rainforest with the dynamic alternation of rainy and dry seasons


    When you actually take a minute and read the above.....it smells of snake oil.




    [​IMG]



    CO2 small cartridge for CO2 System 74.

    Fragrances of the world's three major tropical rainforest images are added to highly-pure CO2.

    It is equipped with original safety seal and original connection pitch.

    Even beginners can easily attach the cartridge to the regulator.



    Fragrant CO2 ??




    Sales people have to sell, it's their job, it's what they do. Everyone is familiar with the oft used term by Real Estate agents "Great Fixer Upper" which usually stands for clapped out, termite ridden, 1/2 a roof.....bring your bulldozer.

    But real estate agents don't have fanbois. I agree with Tom that ADA has no control over the fanbois, but from a sales point of view it's a wonderful position to be in when you have legions of them literally pushing sales with the utmost vigour for you.
     
  12. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Devils' advocate, but.....

    Is it possible the poster was being facetious with his last comment?

    I know it is something I would say with one of those sarcastic emoticons :)
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well ,the sales marketing baloney comes across very different than many aquarium products
     
  14. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    I think its partially a translation/cultural thing. It sounds really hokey here, but there it may be just how things are done.
     
  15. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    ADA products are good, no question. The displays are impressive. It is all magnificent, is it not?
    Now, there will be probably two major categories of people that would be seriously interested in such greatness. One is those that are genuinely seeking good advice on how to do nice aquarium. The other category would be those that are fascinated by the flashy screamingly pretty exhibition of high end gear that supposedly makes it all possible.
    This second category of followers are the same type of people that follow anyone that they would consider GOD ALMIGHTY. The modern world have caused many people to grow with unmanageable inferiority complex and those are the people that follow stars in the sky asking very little or no questions at all.
    I am saying this, because I have come across many on the forums that will weep Amano this, Amano that, oh but ADA blah, blah....
    Most of ADA products are not really standing for aquatics, but for all of those fools prepared to pay the huge sums of money and later make a statement.
    lily Pipe for 130£, small aquarium for 2000£... rubbish. That is no aquatics, it is a rip off, no more no less.

    Can not deny the beauty of their products, but can not pass easily those "affordable" prices either.

    ADA does not have control of the fanboism indeed. But whet they do have control over is how to tease all those hungry for self image people that would be their best supporters, just like in every other industry.

    The most ridiculous of all that I can see is the fertilizer prices. My goodness I am sure not the tears of The Lord would cost as much.

    Never the less I wish to all those funs to have cash and keep spending as long as they feel special and privileged.
     
  16. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    AHAHAHAHA! :D

    I do get a kick out of some of the absolute faithfulness...faithfully blind....I especially get a kick out of the portion of the Aquajournal where there is an account about Mr. Amano, he is written about with such reverence, almost deified. It makes me embarrassed to even read it.

    Maybe those bottles are filled with his tears?

    $Pay$ homage....

    I like ADA products, some I have bought, others are outrageously over priced and even unnecessary. In the interest of full disclosure, when I first started I looked into the air sweeper. I thought, hmmm, a nice scent coming from the aquarium...not musty fish tank smell. I was trying to "sell" the idea of a larger aquarium to my wife. Rainforest air helped. I didn't get it and made one instead, never used it.

    @Gerry, I agree that in the post referenced the author may be being facetious. Although his advice wasn't the greatest either. Maybe we could do a signature banner that reads... "Why? Cuz thats how Amano does it."
     
  17. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    Just an addendum. This thread wasn't aimed at Amano or ADA, it was just an observation of the prevalence of ADA fanboism that is out there on every aquatic forum and how fervently they fall over themselves to defend their beloved, marketed to the masses consumer product, when they pick up the barest scent of even the slightest questioning of anything ADA.
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    So here's an interesting question: does ADA and the fanboys..........does this help the hobby and promote it ultimately?
    When Amano comes for a talk, he pulls in more folks than the best researchers ever could......he also cost the most.

    I would have to say that it does help the hobby, and promote it like the hobbyists themselves never could.

    As long as some larger corporations does not buy ADA, I'm okay with it, but I will not stop questioning things.......regardless.
    I do try and support SeaChem, ADA, ADG, AFA, Albany, the larger national/international folks..........as well as the little LFS's..........those helping the hobby in their own way.
    But I never give anyone a blank check, and I expect them to be as skeptical of me and what I say as well. Keeps everyone good and honest.

    Ferts, well.........we know you cannot really brand things like that.......water with a tiny bit of ferts..........but.........adding ferts DIY is not something the LFS will promote.........so it gets back to having LFS and companies involved in this hobby support and market and promote this stuff, not just hobbyists. It's never a fully perfect relationship, but no relationship is that perfect either. The honeymoon is over soon enough. Businesses realize this realtionship, they tend not to be bitter about it IME, I sell wood and set up tanks, folks can do this also and I do charge an arm and leg, but not much more than plumber contractor might. So folks can go get their own wood also, might not be as nice, but ferts are standard. Hardscaping materials are not.

    Still, ask that question, does ADA do much more good, than harm? I'd have to agree with the more good. He and ADA have brought many more people into the hobby. I've done my part in my own way, we all have/do.
    The world is a better place with him and ADA.

    This does not make me a fanboy.........but it is a rational assessment.
    Some folks think the world is black and white about such things. They do not understand ying and yang. I find pity for them.
     
  19. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    ADA? absolutely in my opinion. It's actually brought a touch of glamour and pizazz to the hobby (not that I own a single ADA item). It's literally "stardomized" it for some people and lots of folks find comfort in being brand conscious.

    The fanboys? My jury is still out in that regard. Some of the claptrap I have read posted by some fantatics doesn't really promote it in a sense of - "There's more than one way to skin a cat" and when people are so doggedly of a one track mind alarm bells start ringing for me.


    What I think a legitmate question is - How long in the real word will a typical Iwaguma tank setup hold someones interest for? Will this fanboism die out after X amount of years? People get "bored" with reef tanks with a virtually endless supply of life forms to choose from, so a standard Iwaguma tanks longevity could be short lived.
     
  20. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I guess another question to ask is how sustainable are the ADA methods? I know there are methods out there that will work well for a few months or so for contest purposes, but don't hold up over time. But do they fail because of the method, or because the person gets lazy and starts to skip things?

    -
    S
     
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