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? about uv light and ick

Discussion in 'Fish for Planted Tanks' started by tinkerman, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. tinkerman

    tinkerman Subscriber

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    Ok so I did something stupid I went to my lfs and got fish that they tend to get ick at alot and didn't quarintine. I have a uv light on this tank and thought that it should kill the ick and it didn't seem to work(not the reason I got the uv light). I know I can add salt and raise the temp to 84 degrees and kill it. I forgot how much salt I have to add. This is for a 125 gal tank the uv light is 24 watts. is my uv light too small for this tank also?

    Thank you for any help
    Lyle
     
  2. raun

    raun Junior Poster

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    Its been a while since I've had to deal with fish sicknesses, but if I remember correctly ick is usually caused by stress. That can be from changing tanks, or an underlaying sickness. A UV light will help kill parasites and bacteria in the water column, but if your fish already have something the UV won't help much; it will help to prevent the spreading of what ever caused the problem to the other fish, though.

    If your fish only have ick, it tends to go away by itself if the tank is stable, and you're less likely to spread it to other fish if the tank is stable.

    Treating a 125 gallon tank is expensive. I'd recommend pulling out the sick fish, and do a ick treatment and maybe a bacterial infection treatment. Going out and buying a 5 or 10 gallon tank for treatment is probably cheaper than treating your 125. Even a 2 gallon plastic "critter keeper" will work. I like the Jungle ick clear tablets. They've always worked for me in the past. I treat my planted tanks directly as a last resort.

    I have a 5watt UV on my 75 gallon, which is usually off. This is probably too small, but when I started this tank a year ago it fixed my initial baterial bloom, that wouldn't go away by it self for 3 weeks, in under 72 hours. Your 24 watter sounds fine to me.
     
  3. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    I understand that it takes a longer exposure to the UV to kill organisms that are more complicated than green water algae. So, for disease organisms it is recommended to slow the flow rate through the UV unit. I don't use one so I don't know how much you need to slow it.
     
  4. tinkerman

    tinkerman Subscriber

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    Well I finally caught all my fish(only took 6 or so hrs and taking 90% of the plants out) but I did it. Just finishing up putting them in the old 29 gal. I got some quick cure as a couple people said it worked pretty good when they had to use meds. Is there anything else I should treat for before they go back into the 125 gal besides the quick cure? Tomarrow should be a long day rescape and 50% water change.
     
  5. raun

    raun Junior Poster

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    quick cure is good stuff too. Just make sure they look healthy before putting them back into the main tank. If you see any sign of secondary infection (collapsed fins, pop eye, fin rot, etc) or parasites treat for that too. I believe quick cure works in 24 to 48 hours so you'll know soon. I'd leave them in the 29 until next weekend even if they start looking better tomorrow.

    raun
     
  6. wesleydnunder

    wesleydnunder Junior Poster

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    I realize this is an old thread but I see a couple misconceptions about the disease of Ich. Here's a good article about the parasite:

    Ich (FW) - AquariumBoard Forums

    Mark
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Curiously I rarely have ever had disease or parasites such as ick :cool:
    Water changes, good care, current, reasonable stocking, good food etc.

    So I have not used salt or MG for decades.........plants also seem to prevent ick, I've added ick infested fish, moderately so, not covered and about to die...........to planted tanks and watched them recover without treatment of any sort.

    A good habitat for your fish= Healthy fish= best defense

    Seems to hold much more true for plants and fish than all the baloney in the world about algicides and fish tonics, snake oils and cure alls.

    Yet much less discussion, much less effort and consistency is placed on the basics of aquarium keeping for some reason. Seems some folks still believe a pound of cure is worth more than an ounce of prevention.

    Why?
    Because it's what folks want to hear, not the truth or the root cause.
    Folks get lazy and slack off. Folks see an issue and use a pill rather than general environmental improvement.

    I get folks haggling with me all the time over not doing water changes and the basic work that goes along with the hobby. Yes, it can be done but there are trade offs and folks do not think those trade offs apply to them, they think they can find ways around it and get all hard headed.

    Well that is fine, but when you kill your fish, do not say I did not tell you so, and statistically speaking, most will kill some fish by avoiding it, everyone I know that's done this has..........

    Just a matter of time.
    Best to stay on top of things, make things simple and easy to care for, much better than salting the water.

    Disease is very much like algae in this regard.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Glad you posted this, Tom. I had some ich a while back (2 months ago) that went away on it's own -- after reading the ich link, I was sure that ich was hiding in all of my fish's gills or something! This is a big relief.
     
  9. wesleydnunder

    wesleydnunder Junior Poster

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    The Ich article was linked as a response to the earlier statement that ich comes from poor conditions in aquaria. Ich isn't caused by stress, but a parisite. Granted, stressed fish succumb to this disease much easier than healthy, unstressed fish.

    I'd never advocate the use of any corrective measure over proper maint. and husbandry. If I've learned nothing else in 40+ years of fishkeeping, I've learned the absolute necessity of doing the work involved in keeping healthy aquaria and inhabitants.

    As y'all already know, many of the fish bought are stressed to some degree. This, IMO, necessitates proper QT procedures of new acquisitions prior to introducing them to my aquaria. If a new fish has ich or some other disease, it's much easier and wiser, IMO, to treat the disease in a QT set up than in the "show" tank.

    Mark
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Obviously ick is caused by ick.
    However, why does it infect fish is the root issue.

    Can someone explain why, even after repeated exposures to ich parasites, my fish simply do not get ick and even when I add infected fish, they have little issue with it as it goes away on it's own in my tanks?

    I'm talking 30-50 tanks, 15 years worth of very simple observation that is counter to this claim. And not just myself, rather, many folks that have kept good water changes, planted tanks etc. This is not some luck or by chance observation.

    I just do not buy this claim. Any exposure would allow ick to grow on fish, stressed or otherwise. And that is the core issue, not just exposure which is implied in that article.

    Poor conditions is also vague, poor conditions = stressed fish, this is rather obvious.

    But what is causing the stress?
    Lack of water changes?
    Over loading the tank?
    Low O2?
    Too much CO2?
    Too much NH4?
    Too much NO3?

    Low O2 and the other parameters over short term do not appear to do so, in non CO2 planted tanks, Ick is exceedingly rare if the tank is well balanced and ran.
    Same is true for CO2 planted tanks.

    The devil is in the details, asking the specific question as to why fish get ick, poor conditions or stress and if so, what specific types of stress or poor environmental conditions lead to Ick.

    If you have fish that have ick, you are virtually always doing something very wrong with the general care.

    Would you disagree with that?

    It's ironic, that folks get into diseases so much without figuring out more specifics about how the disease came about in the first place vs dealing with all the life cycles(which are important), and treatments after infection.

    What I'm saying is that prevention is the best line of defense in any situation.
    Yet very little effort, little discussion, little research addresses prevention.

    Once a nasty outbreak occurs, say the aquarist has really neglected things for a week etc, fish are totally covered with ich, well, meds/salt are likely the only way to save the fish at that point.

    Do folks wait till the dog has mange to get around to good general care?
    Do we just go to the dentist for fillings instead of brushing our teeth routinely?
    Maybe I have a different viewpoint about all this, but it seems rump backwards.

    I'm not saying that meds/salts have no use, plants are different here, but for fish, seems like algae and fish disease have some commonalities.

    And I can also take an algae infested plant, add it to a well run tank and the algae, even with exposure, does not get established in the tank and no infection occurs.

    Same deal here.

    Algae, like water molds, have plenty of life cycles, germination signals are the key as well as weakened state for the plants/critters.
    Not exposure, there's weak correlative evidence there for both cases.
    Obviously you need exposure to inoculate, but you are hardly guaranteed the pest will grow and infect to cause any significant harm.

    I've not QT some many fish, even ones coming in with Ick, why does it always go away? I do not even own any Formalin, malachite green, use salt dips etc, haven't for decades.

    There's plenty of exposure.
    No disease or fish issues however.
    I did not stop adding based on principle, just never needed it any longer and stop using it.

    Seems more emphasis should be on the basic care of aquariums, much less on learning about what all to add to kill disease, algae etc.

    Back to the topic: UV light should kill the free swimming stages and a good micron filter will also, but I think looking at the root cause is the only real method over time.

    As far as "learning more", the germination and the specific types of stress that induce the parasite is more useful for the nature environment systems and the aquariums.

    Life histories are very important, the article was good in that regard. That's where you can beat these pest very often and not induce the next stage of germination.

    Once the cycle stops, there's no issues.
    Then good general care will prevent it from returning.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. wesleydnunder

    wesleydnunder Junior Poster

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    I don't disagree with any of the above, Tom.

    I think most fish don't get the disease in our tanks, they already have it when we buy them. Why? Obviously the stress and lack of care received at holding stations, fish farms, distributor tanks and lfs tanks. Not saying all, just many.

    As for putting known infected fish in the aquarium? NIMT, thank you. Regardless of the pristene condition of my tank and glowing health of my fish and plants, I'm still not puttin' infected fish in my tanks if I can help it. I applaud your success with doing this, but I'm a chicken where $500.00 worth of discus are concerned.

    I also don't own any of the above mentioned meds. I do have some table salt around here somewhere. I haven't had to treat disease in many many moons, and don't expect to. My fish die of old age, not disease or polluted tank conditions. I have two yoyos about to celebrate their 20th birthdays.

    Sorry to the OP for getting so far from the topic.
    Thanks Tom,

    Mark
     
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