This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Abit off topic, but I didnt know where else to post this.

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by ntino, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    This regards SW tanks.
    I have never had a salt water tank, but I am thinking of getting a Reef saltwater tank instead of my 240g planted discus tank. Mainly because the discus tank is abit more than I care to scape carefully, and discus just kinda lost their appeal to me (If anyone is interested I have 2 HUGE 8.5+ inch snakeskins - show quality, that I am willing to sell). Saltwater seems abit more interesting to me, mainly because of a better/more interesting selection of animals.

    I know in general what is needed for a saltwater tank, but i literally have 0 experience.
    So, for those of you that know SW well, two questions -

    1) do you think that a 300g tank with a large sump would be too much to take on as a first saltwater tank? I'm fairly decent as far as plumbing goes, and I think that technically it wouldnt be a problem for me to set up various auto dosers, top offs, ect.

    2)that being said, I have never had a SW tank, let alone a Reef tank, so I would rather ask help from people on some of the forums, as far as what would be the best setup for such a tank, what equipment to get, ect.(going to be a setup where the tank is in the living room, rest of the stuff is in the basement, should be easy enough.
    So what would be the Reef forum you would recommend I go to?

    Thanks alot!

    P.S. Also, if any of you have advice of their own, feel free to comment! As far as I understand, the most important things are quality live rock, a good skimmer and alot of flow.
    Also, what is the recommended water change amount and schedule in a large reef system? is it 10% a week or 10% a month?
     
  2. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    I don't have much experience with sw (just starting up my first tank now) but from my research I think the first thing to realize is that you'll need to put up a lot of money for a system that size, for lighting (if you're doing corals) and a huge skimmer. Plus obviously the stock and live rock, live rock alone could be well over $1,000 depending on where you live and what kind of deal you can get in bulk. The cheapest I could find it was $8/lb for uncured, so at that rate you're looking at $2,400 in rock alone (1 lb/gallon). You're probably looking at maybe $500 - $1000 for a skimmer and then at least $500 in lighting upgrades or probably a lot more, I haven't looked into lighting systems for a tank of that size and I don't know what you have, but you can easily spend $500-$1000 just on lighting for a 50g tank. SW is not cheap. Assuming you already have the tank and heaters and such, you can easily look at $4-5,000 before you're done stocking it. I just set up a 30g/20g sump and even though I made my own lighting, hoods, and I'm not having corals (so no special lighting), and I got a cheap skimmer, and built my own sump, it's cost me close to $800 thus far and I haven't even stocked it yet. There's not really any way to do a reef tank cheaply like you can FW because you need live rock and stock and lots of circulation no matter what else you do, and that all involves big money.

    Assuming you have unlimited funds... I think most people do 10% water changes every second week or so. It obviously depends on your stocking level, skimming capacity, and if you are keeping any sensitive stock/corals.

    Thus far I'm fascinated by the possibilities for SW stocking - the stock is a lot more interesting than most FW options. I never realized how diverse ocean life really is until I started researching possibilities for stocking my tank.
     
  3. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    Question 1

    Answer:

    Purchase the biggest aquarium that you can live with in the room you plan on installing it in. There is nothing worse than spending 10k on a nice reef tank and wanting to go bigger but then you find out that it will not go into any other room. Also if you try to sell you can only get for 20-60% of the price you paid originally. So I say once again, if you like big tanks and your room can fit up to an 8'x2x3' then get it... if it can fit bigger and still be a functional room to your liking then get bigger!

    Question 2

    Answer:

    Reef Central Online Community

    P.S.

    Get the best lighting setup you can!

    Here is a good one for 6' tank
    Current USA 72 inch Outer Orbit 3x250w 10K HQI-MH w/ 8x39W T5 HO & 24 Lunar Lights, 72in > 72in

    If you get a wider tank then 6' then you will want to look into multiple matching lights. It is important to make sure you have even light dispersion from one side of the tank to the other. It is not alway how many wpg you have but quality and coverage.
     
  4. suep

    suep Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    Talking Reef has been very helpful and friendly. It's been a while since they've done a podcast, but they have a ton of old ones in iTunes that I definitely recommend to anyone interested in saltwater!

    Talkingreef
     
  5. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    To Carissa-
    Well, I know it will be alot of money. I dont need to stock the tank at once, I will be focusing on corals and inverts. not too many fish at all.
    I can get fiji premium live rock at about 4/pound.
    From what I understand, just because its a bigger tank doesnt mean that I need to get 1 pound of rock per gallon, also, different kind of rock has different density, better rock usually is less dense, so you actually get more rock per pound.
    tank dimensions would probably be 72x32x30.
    To pockets -
    I currently have two 72" t5 fixtures. 6x80w, so around 960w total. I dont know if thats enough for 30" depth though - might need to add MH. Most places say MH has more penetration, but i have seem some tests that say otherwise. What do you think?
    I understand the basic concepts of what makes a good tank fairly well - alot of light, as much flow as you can, and the biggest skimmer you can buy. More water is good, even if the actual reef is smaller/less animals, so I preffer to stock lightly.
    The biggest tank I can get in my house will have a 72x32 footprint. I dont think going higher than 30" is a good idea.
    I would want to make sure I get all the plumbing and flow correctly from the get go....
     
  6. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    My understanding is that less dense rock should be about 1 lb/gallon, and denser rock would be 1.5 - 2 lb/gallon. However that's just what I've read and not due to any experience. :) You can also buy dead base rock much cheaper and let it populate itself with the bacteria over time, if you're not going to rush stocking.

    If you're drilling bulkheads, make sure you do the research on how wide the diameter will need to be and how deep under the water line to get the flow rate you want (taking into account that the tank will never be completely full). I tried drilling and broke my tank.... still don't know what happened. It was only a 30g tank so possibly the glass was just a bit too thin to handle any stress.
     
  7. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    I would purchase the Current USA light that I posted a link to above----Then I would set aside one the the 6x80watt T5 fixtures as a spare and use the Current USA with one of your T5-6x80watt fixtures since you will have a 32" deep tank this will be good coverage from front-back & left-right. The Current USA fixture is 15" deep x 72" wide hence you will want the other 6x80watt fixture to fill in the other 17" of depth on your tank.
     
  8. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
  9. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    That would not be a very even spread of light in the tank.

    I could just get a couple of pendants and hang those in between the lights I have right now, wouldnt that be better?
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,660
    Likes Received:
    600
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    I'd go a batch of HQI 250W's(4-6 or so), some T5 sets, say 8x 54 total.
    This assumes a 8x2x2 ft dimension

    As far as filtration etc, live rock inside and you might take a good look at Santa Monica's algae scrubber designs here. I think over all, you can make something that will export the PO4/NO3 and reduce water changes better than skimmer tweaking.........less noise, more green thumb etc.
    Bag filters for mech filtration.
    Test kits, KH and Ca++, Mg++ might not be bad either, then NO3/PO4, eg Lamotte or a high grade method/test.


    Both take some focus, much like plants, but I think most come out on top with the algae and plant theme (Skim vs Plant filtering).

    As far as learning, the species and their needs is where I'd spend more time and the practical care.

    Good choice but let me tell you this: Reefs are huge money pits.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,660
    Likes Received:
    600
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    Read everything that Pocket's suggested there, the on line mag is really good.
    RC is a monster place, way too active for many. Bit of a Zoo till you get into some of the quieter subforums.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    ntino!

    If your new tank is 32" from front to back and the outer orbit is 15"x72" wide then you have a gap of 17" either in front of the Outer Orbit or behind. This is where you would use one of the 72" wide 6x80watt T5 fixtures you have.

    I don't understand why you say "not be a very even spread" ? I have not seen your 6x80watt fixture but I am willing to bet that every square inch of surface area on the top of the tank would be covered.

    I suggested the Outer Orbit because I have one on a 6' wide tank.

    And, I was willing to basically discard an AHsupply PC 4x96watt + 2x55watt + extra end caps and at least one set of every bulb color temp they make only 8months old. Plus a 5piece Reptile Lunar light set.

    I paid 500-600 on lights and bulbs and have disassembled them and put them in the closet and would do it again in a heart beat because the Outer Orbit is BadA**.

    It has separate cord forblue LED, separate cord for white LEDs, separate cord for T5, and separate cord for MH, so they can operate on there own timers. I also have the Lunar Sim module that comes with the Neptune Aqua Controller and this setup in my opinion is the best.

    I love the fact that it has 12 blue LED + 12 white LED + 4 T5 in back and 4 T5 front + 3 MH HQI bulbs in center all perfectly evenly distributed with built in fans that turn on only with the MH's are on. Reflecters are top quality and lens protectors both MH and T5's are easy to remove and clean without moving the fixture.

    Pendants are an option as you already know. And for a 6' wide tank I would get no less than 3.

    Sorry if I sound like I am trying to sell you the fixture :D

    But you did ask me what I thought was better.
     
  13. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    The reason why I said it wouldnt be even is because one side is going to get more light - the new orbit fixture is obviously alot more light than a 480w t5.
    Any recommendations with live rock? and also, is there a good place to buy sumps(how big of a sump will I need)?
    Also, any articles or builds that you think I would learn from would be great.
    And those of you with experience, how much do you think the tank will run me without the animals (I understand it differs accoarding to what I decide to use but lets say I would get the quality products out there - in the long run, that seems to save money in most cases).
    I dont plan on running to get a tank and everything else right this second, but I figured planning this out should keep me busy for the next 3-4 months.
     
  14. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    when you said this I thought that each 480watt T5 fixture was 72" wide and would then allow you to use one with the Outer Orbit.

    You are wise to invest a good amount (3-4mnth) of time in research before going to purchase the equipment.

    I am sure your setup is going to bring great satisfaction and look fantastic

    :)
     
  15. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    each is 72"
    but its alot less light, the orbit light has x3 250w hqi, plus t5s.. its alot more light than the one fixture I have now, so the part of the tank thats going to have one of my current lights is going to suffer from have less light than the other half.

    btw, you mentioned you have a 6' wide tank? Did you really mean wide or did you mean long? a 6' wide is huge....

    I have to figure out what to do with my current tank, I thought of making it into a sump, but I dont think its going to work out, I would rather go with an acrylic sump.
    I have to sell some of the discus i have, some are expensive and very good quality.

    It just seems that I neglect that tank because there is nothing interesting it really brings to me. discus are hard to keep because you need to feed them often. plants grow like crazy and its impossible to keep the tank looking neat without spending alot of time on pruning.

    Saltwater is a challenge, and i like the big selection of animals you can have. and of course colors are alot better than any freshwater tank, even though I think a nicely scaped planted tank is really nice to look it as well, but I will have my high tech 60 cube for that.

    I thought I might get a SW cube to learn reef tanks, but it is also an expensive setup to be successful.

    Every advice I get here is highly appreciated.
     
  16. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    :eek:

    I thought that when standing at the front of an aquarium the distance from ones left to the right would logically be deemed as the width.

    IMO they should refer to aquariums as (Width x Depth x Height. 72x18x24h. )


    The usage of the term "Length" would make one assume that the focal point is at one of the two ends, when rather it is at the front.


    Width = 72"
    # the extent of something from side to side
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Depth = 18"
    # the extent downward or backward or inward; "the depth of the water"; "depth of a shelf"; "depth of a closet"
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Height = 24"
    # the vertical dimension of extension; distance from the base of something to the top
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


    Now a 6' wide aquarium .... that would be a fish spa!

    Thanks for straightening me out :)
     
  17. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    wide makes more sense to me as well, but i thought they called it legth?!
    I always hear about how long is the tank, ect...

    Quick question - If i have a calcium reactor, I dont need to use kalkwasser? Do I just top off with RO water?
    Also when a skimmer is rated for a specific tank size, is that total system water?(i would guess, but you can only fit that much bioload in a certain tank size).
     
  18. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    I have never had a SW tank before ntino!

    heheehee!
     
  19. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    I think that you do either/or (calcium reactor/kalkwasser). Two different ideas to accomplish the same thing. Kalkwasser is something you dose and a calcium reactor is a unit that you circulate the tank water through to pick up calcium.

    I would think that the skimmer should be rated for your total water capacity if that's the way you'll be stocking your tank. An algae scrubber or macroalgae in a refugium or a deep sand bed will also help with the nitrates etc. So if you're just going with a skimmer I would get one that's a bit overpowered, but if you're doing these other things too it all helps to accomplish the same thing so you should take that into account along with your final stocking level.
     
  20. ntino

    ntino Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    8:59 PM
    What did you buy that light for then? :eek:
     
Loading...

Share This Page