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Aberrant Growth Form of Lilaeopsis brasiliensis

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by ukamikazu, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    Greetings! I've been a very long time lurker and this is my first time posting. As you can guess from the title of this post, I have encountered something for which I cannot find any information on.

    In March I purchased a square foot "sod" patch of Lilaeopsis brasiliensis from AquariumPlants.com. An excellent deal, the quality was impeccable and they were grown submerged.

    I set about teasing apart strands and planting them in a number of different tanks. I had a few bits left and decided to toss them them in my 20 gallon high light grow out and test tank.

    The stats are pH 7.0, C02 25 PPM (pressurized), kH 8, gH 7 @ 5 WPG using EI. Lights are on for 12 hours daily using 2 dual daylight PC lights (6,700K/10,000K). It is filtered by a JBJ Reaction 4 stage canister filter (Model EFU 25) and thus has an 8 Watt UV-C sterilizer that runs continuously. This set-up is replicated throughout my other tanks and I have enjoyed almost too much success with it as evidenced by the mandatory and aggressively pursued bi-weekly prunings. Culture and management are not problems for me.

    This tank is special. It is where I test, quarantine, experiment, breed, replicate, you name it. It is dear to me because it is how I've learned all that I know now and everything I will know in the future. It is my model for my other tanks.

    Only, in this tank, the Lilaeopsis began doing something very strange. The old growth died off and this was expected but the new growth is like nothing anyone has ever seen and I've scoured the Internet, libraries and called upon a few universities and no one has seen this. Texas A&M's Suburban and Ornamental Biology Unit is probably the best in the US and they are gob smacked though they admit their experience with tropical hydrophytes is a bit limited.

    The new growth looks like giant Glossostigma elatinoides. I have attached pictures for everyone to view. My usual forum where I post actively in were also unable to help and they strongly encouraged me to post it here and here I am begging for information.

    Is this a mutation? Like terrestrial plants, could these be sun leaves? Is it perhaps a little known cultivar? What is it?

    Make no mistake, this is Lilaeopsis brasiliensis. It isn't a piece of something that got entangled with my shipment. I saw it growing from the same roots and stems and I don't think grafting (natural or accidental) is likely either. The same growth form is occuring in the refugium attached to this tank, hence the two different pictures.

    These pictures were taken in March. Now it is almost mid April and they are proliferating and the shape is consistent. I want to continue culturing and propagating them because I like this form. It is pretty cool.

    So, what do you all think?

    I will offer current pictures later today so you can see how they've changed.

    Thank you for your time and attention.
     
  2. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    New Pictures of Aberrant Lilaeopsis brasiliensis

    As stated earlier, here are photos of these little monsters today. They have grown quite a bit in a month.

    100_2149_1.JPG

    100_2152_1.JPG

    100_2155_1.JPG

    100_2158_1.JPG

    100_2160_1.JPG
     
  3. Darkstar

    Darkstar Junior Poster

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    What you have there is Marsilea quadrifolia.
     
  4. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    I don't mean to be contentious, but I'm certain that it is not. These pieces came off of a square foot sod patch of verifiable Lilaeopsis brasiliensis. They grew from the same runners and crowns. There are even a few of the grass like growths still attached to other runners which are not thriving as much as these odd growths are.

    Also, if you will look closely at the images, the stems are jointed and the runners tend to travel above the gravel. Also, this fern doesn't grow in a rosette fashion like these do. I apologize for the picture quality but the growth while similar still has stark differences to any Marsilea species. There is also a lack of a rhizome, which while very small in Marsilea, are simply not present here. Not clearly visible is also the strong central vein or midrib. From my observations, Marsilea has several small veins that on very close inspection give it a pleated look. Finally, it grows leaves the way a typical rosette plant does and not the classic unrolling that ferns do, one leaf at a time from different axes.

    I admittedly had not considered this. Good try, though and I thank you for the suggestion.

    I realize I am the one asking for help and any help is appreciated. I am however certain that it is not Marsilea.

    Thank you, though. I mean that.
     
  5. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    I had Marsilea minuta in my aquarium a few months ago, and what you have looks just like it, except yours is a brighter green than I recall mine being. But, I had fairly low light too, and you have high light. I don't believe those are L. brasiliensis. I don't claim to be anything close to expert on plant identification, so I'm only suggesting here. Also, the Marsilea is a very good hitchhiker plant, in my experience. I took all of it out of my tank, but tiny bits kept growing, so it is back again.
     
  6. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    Also good, but still doesn't have the same growth habit more common to ferns. This growth habit is just like Echinodorus tenellus: A growing tip on a runner that is adventitious versus a spreading rhizome.

    I must reassert that this is what was growing from the same crown of the verifiable sod patch of L. brasiliensis as purchased from AquariumPlants.com.

    As you have also observed, this is a way brighter green than is typical on Marsileas and the venation is different. Also, these leaves grow to almost 3 inches in length. 2 inches of that is just petiole which strangely and seamlessly turns into that rounded leaf. Also the stem is flat, like L. brasiliensis and Marsilea is round.

    I must thank you all for allowing me to argue and present evidence for my theories. You are really helping me check my head and justify myself. This is also proving to be quite stimulating to me personally.

    Please continue. This is helping us make progress.
     
  7. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    uk,

    I think that emailing some of your pics to AquariumPlants.com would probably be the quickest way to solve this puzzle. Certainly looks like Glosso to me ... I find it hard to believe such a big mutation could happen overnight, so the chances of this being micro sword seem pretty slim.
     
  8. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    I believe I shall try that.

    The change wasn't overnight either. As I have mentioned before, it is too slow growing and too large to be a Glosso but too fast growing to be Marsilea and the way it grows is wrong.

    I don't regard this as a problem at all. In fact I am delighted when this kind of thing happens. I wish to continue propagating this little monster and see what happens.

    Among terrestrial plants this isn't unusual at all, especially with tropicals. This is how new leaf shapes, flower colours and variegation get discovered. Ask anyone who is an Aroid enthusiast and they'll tell you, especially among Epipremnums, that it isn't unusual for a different leaf shape or color to spontaneously start growing from a node on the mother plant. That's how Golden Pothos and the variant Marble Queen happened as well as countless others.

    I'm thinking it may even be worth it to ask the editors of Practical Fishkeeping and Tropical Fish Hobbyist what they think at this point.

    Well thank you all for your input thus far. Maybe if I'm lucky and I have something truly unique y'all will open the Tropica catalogue one day and find Lilaeopsis brasiliensis 'WTF' :D .

    Thank you all again.
     
  9. Joetee

    Joetee Prolific Poster

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    If I understand correctly, this is the same plant that you have planted in other tanks but is growing differently.
    Why not pull up some and replant it in the other tanks and see if it reverts back to the other form? This will tell you if it is different or not.
    Just a thought.
    Joe
     
  10. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    I have in fact done just that.

    Both the original plugs and these new growths were placed in my refugium and the originals withered and became this form and the aberrant ones continued to multiply even after being transplanted again.
     
  11. evandro.carrenho

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    Hey, this thread is crap. This is just glossostigma.
     
  12. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    Yep it's glosso for sure. The runners, the leaf shape everything.
     
  13. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    Well I'm sorry you feel that way.

    I rescind my question. I suppose this is all the response and help I'm going to get anyway.

    Moderators and Administrators you may lock, close or delete this thread at your convenience.

    Thank you all, those who posted meaningfully and good day.
     
  14. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    Ahh don't worry about the thread. But it is indeed glosso.

    You don't know how many plants I've bought at the LFS and been extremely surprised at what the submerged form took on. I remember a green amazon sword, advertised as such, turned out to be giant red rubin sword which is vastly different. Mis-labelling is fairly common don't beat yourself up for it.

    But glosso doesn't come cheap! A square foot if you got for a good price is good. I thought I was getting a good price at $4.50 a pot and I got 6 pots or so. Everywhere else they were like $7-8.
     
  15. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    Thank you Dave and I am now actively considering the possibility. If I am incorrect, it does strongly resemble a Glosso.

    A few questions then: Has Glosso been a known traveller? I'm sure any plant can be. Is it possible that a bit of it grafted itself onto the Lilaeopsis? This does happen in nature, so I am willing to entertain the possibility.
     
  16. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Maybe not so much grafted on, but a hitchhiker? I've gotten a couple of potted bits of ground cover with the odd bit or two of something else that was in the same tank.

    -
    S
     
  17. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    If one of you would be so kind, could you post the biggest size photograph that the forum software will low of a super extreme close up of the leaf surface of Glosso and the base from which it grows, please?

    Or if you can host an image elsewhere, how about a link to super extreme close ups of Glosso's leaves and crown? I mean, really close up of the leaves.

    This will put the issue to bed for me definitively.

    Thank you.
     
  18. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    Already had a thread about growing the stuff emersed. Just scroll down to the last few pics--there should be more than enough detail: http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/5468-emersed-glosso-questions.html
     
  19. ukamikazu

    ukamikazu Junior Poster

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    Yep. That tears it for me. Identical leaf structure. I just have really big healthy spreading Glosso that just travelled in my Lilaeopsis.

    Good deal. Thank you.
     
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