A Primer for Pressurized CO2

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
barbarossa4122;60035 said:
OK. But, I was told that it was tested and it worked. I'll switch it if I must.

I had to switch several of my burkerts around when I found out, too. I spoke with the engineers at burkert about this issue. Both sides are not identical. The "P" side is for pressurized gas. The "A" side is the side that needs to connect to the needle valve.

They are not designed to work with a reverse gas flow. They can, but are not designed to.
Not many people know what they are doing when it comes to installing these things (I was included in this group till the Burkert engineers tested my brand new solenoid and educated me as to why it wouldn't close).

They look at the description, which says it's 2-way unit, and automatically assume that there is no difference between the sides.

This is totally incorrect.

on the NPT side, "T" is the pressurized side (closest to the regulator) and "N" is the needle valve side.
"P" on the obverse side and "A" towards the neelde valve.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...ow-direction-is-important-in-preventing-leaks
 
Last edited by a moderator:

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
Matt F.;60038 said:
I had to switch several of my burkerts around when I found out, too. I spoke with the engineers at burkert about this issue. Both sides are not identical. The "P" side is for pressurized gas. The "A" side is the side that needs to connect to the needle valve.

They are not designed to work with a reverse gas flow. They can, but are not designed to.
Not many people know what they are doing when it comes to installing these things (I was included in this group till the Burkert engineers tested my brand new solenoid and educated me as to why it wouldn't close).

They look at the description, which says it's 2-way unit, and automatically assume that there is no difference between the sides.

This is totally incorrect.

on the NPT side, "T" is the pressurized side (closest to the regulator) and "N" is the needle valve side.
"P" on the obverse side and "A" towards the neelde valve.

http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...ow-direction-is-important-in-preventing-leaks

Hi Matt,

Got it loud and clear and I'll do the switch. How about the last pic I posted ? Switch that one too ? Thank you.
 

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
Hi, there!

I can't tell for sure from the pic.

rule of thumb for that side (T) should be closest to the regulator and the (N) side should be connected closest to the needle valve.

(low pressure side) "NPT" (pressure side) gas flow in this configuration
 

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
Matt F.;60040 said:
Hi, there!

I can't tell for sure from the pic.

rule of thumb for that side (T) should be closest to the regulator and the (N) side should be connected closest to the needle valve.

(low pressure side) "NPT" (pressure side) gas flow in this configuration
 

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
barbarossa4122;60041 said:
This is the pic:

010.jpg

Yes, that is incorrect (or the wrong flow direction). I'd switch it and forget it. ;)
 

Left C

Lifetime Members
Sep 26, 2005
2,500
1
36
69
Burlington, NC
barbarossa4122;60035 said:
OK. But, I was told that it was tested and it worked. I'll switch it if I must.
barbarossa4122;60036 said:
I think this one needs to be switch around also. Again, I read Matt's thread about the flow direction the other day and I did notice that mine are installed in the "wrong" direction but again, I was told they were tested and they work. I am not arguing this, just state the facts. I'll switch them around, no problem but, is there a chance that they will not leak.
Btw, I knew someone will mention this sooner or later.
They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.

On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.
 

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
Left C;60044 said:
They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.

On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.

Excellent write up. I actually sent my brand new "leaky" solenoid back to the engineers. They tested it and found no problems. I wondered why, so I inquired. iprocessmart.com put the pieces together that the gas flow was backwards. The engineers confirmed the diagnosis. No problems since. ;)
 

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
I gave it a try a few min ago but, the problem is that the whole thing, the solenoid is already connected to the manifold and the regulator body. I don't have what is need it to take everything apart. I tried and they are really tight. No big deal, I know a shop around my house that will do it for me. Do I make any sense ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
Matt F.;60046 said:
Excellent write up. I actually sent my brand new "leaky" solenoid back to the engineers. They tested it and found no problems. I wondered why, so I inquired. iprocessmart.com put the pieces together that the gas flow was backwards. The engineers confirmed the diagnosis. No problems since. ;)

Just my luck:) Not the end of the world, it will be fixed. Thanks for the help folks. You are the best.
 

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
Left C;60044 said:
They will operate in that orientation, but they will leak. I know from first hand experience and Matt heard his leaking. Matt contacted support and got the installation confirmation information from them and posted it.

Look at the small rectangular diagram that is on the bottom of page 1 in the following pdf. The small diagram is at the lower left hand corner that has Circuit function A in bold letters right above it.
http://burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

You'll notice an arrow pointing upwards indicating the direction of flow. Notice that the "P" is below the bottom of the arrow and the "A" is above the point of the arrow. On the left side of the diagram is a tiny rectangle with a "/" in it. This represents the shaft that goes through the black plastic body.You can see this same diagram on pages 4, 5, 6 and 7.
On page 2, it has a diagram labeled "Material." In the diagram underneath the word "Material", notice that for the part labeled "1" there is a horizontal hole running through it from the left side to the right side. The left side is the "P" side and the right side is the "A" side. You can see that the left side of that hole is drawn differently than the right side. There is a hole going upwards toward part "2" on the left side and a smaller hole leading down directly from part 2 going into the horizontal hole on the right side. There is a barrier between the left and right sides of that horizontal hole. When you hold up the solenoid and look at it; you can see what these diagrams are indicating. I hope this makes sense. It is a bit hard to describe.


Great diagram Left C. Thanks.
 

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
All you need are two adjustable wrenches (I use an 8" and a 10") and some teflon tape of non-hardening thread sealer.
 

barbarossa4122

Guru Class Expert
Dec 29, 2009
975
0
16
NYC
Matt F.;60054 said:
Don't feel bad, I had to re-do three of my solenoids! ;)

I am not. Even better I did learn something out of this.
Now, I did take everything apart including one of the gauges and I am ready to do the switch. OnE Q : Do I have to put thread sealer on ALL the threads ?
 
Last edited by a moderator: