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A potential seiryu rock hardscape for a 220 Gallon tank

Discussion in 'Aquascaping' started by Tom Barr, May 23, 2013.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I was out looking for rock today and found some larger stones that had some good appeal for the 200-400 Gallon tank size, such stones are incredibly hard to come by.
    Seiryu stones are tougher, Ohko are even harder than that.

    I also found some very nice Black Utah lava at the right scale with awesome character, these can be made easily into Uzon stone that ADA has been promoting recently.
    But they are about 20 cents a pound and local.

    I bought 360 lbs of the seiryu stone.

    This is a quick plop down for the scape idea that the client loosely wanted:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Black lava:
    [​IMG]

    Top view
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Once the sediment is in place, the sloping is pretty good with such stones, they provide much better retention than many other methods.
    So some rather tall slopes can be achieved with these rocks.

    Sediment can also better position the stones higher, lower, at the right types of angles, hide parts of the stone. I'll use super glue and rubber sheet for the bottom to protect the glass.
    That can be cut off later once the tank is torn down and the rock is used for other scapes etc. Better than foam and light weight stuff that end up everywhere and shifts, once glued, it's not going anywhere.
     
  2. chocological

    chocological Junior Poster

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    Nice rock there. Looking forward to your plant selections.. :)
     
  3. hamza

    hamza Junior Poster

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    Wow! those are some gigantic seiryu rocks. Now I am expecting another big Journal sometime soon... :)

    What store is that? A landscape store or an aquarium store?

    I had a setup with seiryu in past, it always turned water quite hard by the weekend. When I was using RO(with ~15ppm TDS) on same setup, by weekend TDS shot up to 300ppm. Most of my plants were struggling and I had to pull the scape apart.
    Is there any way we can keep hardness in check apart from huge water changes.
     
    #3 hamza, May 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2013
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Just a landscaping place.

    Yes, it does raise the KH, but I did well with them in the past, with weekly large water changes, if they do 2x a week water changes, there's no issues.
     
  5. thegasman

    thegasman Subscriber

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    Wow! Now that's what I'm talking about. I've been looking for some large stones like that. I only have a 34 gallon tank, but would like to try a scape with only 3 to 5 larger stones, versus trying to use many stones to create a scape. Can I hire you to go pick me out some stones Tom? I'm serious. PM me if you're interested.
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Something I can ship somewhat easily, perhaps.
    That is the real issue shipping rock, it weighs a lot, larger stuff: really tough to ship.

    Profit margin: slim to none. Even if I double the price, unless I sell pallets, it's not worth it.
    So that's why it's 3-5$ a lb in LFS/ADA etc. That and sediment/soil. No $, heavier, hard to ship etc.

    The only way I could see shipping stone is taping the snot out of a cheaper styrofoam cooler and then, adding more styrofoam inside to wedge the rocks in place, then ship that.
    Larger stones: pallets only, then that adds about 150-400$ to the price for freight.

    Therein, lies the issue: lots of work and labor choosing the stone, buying it, then transporting home, then selling it, then packing it up, then taking to the post office to ship.
    Then you get a few peanuts.

    No matter how bad anyone wants the rock, they are not willing to pay much for it either.
    Driftwood is much lighter and easier(this is relative, packing larger driftwood is a challenge) to ship.
     
  7. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
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    I really like that black lava rock...would love to get my hands on some of that for a future tank.
     
  8. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    That looks very nice. It's easier to create a nice scape if you can find the resources. :) I hope to see a nice thread about the development.
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi all,

    Nice rock Dr. Barr! I really like the texture of the seiryu stone...

    I couldn't help but notice:

    1. I have a 220 gal tank.
    2. My tank appears to match the dimensions of your layout.
    3. I have asked you to rescape my tank using rocks.

    Could I in fact be the 'client' ?????

    I really like it. The top view is awesome as it looks very clifflike and mountany :)

    It will provide many hiding spots for dwarf cichlids and small plecos, and allow plenty of room for the cardinals...

    For plants, either ET or monte carlo as the main plant species. Some HG as I like it, and some anubias petite among the rocks, but very little. I want the rocks to be the focal point.

    New thread will be started soon :)

    I like the direction a lot so far! Awesome rock! Cant wait to see what else you can 'dig up' lol
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    There's plenty of that laying around.

    I suppose I could sell that without too much trouble, but the seiryu weighs lots.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I'll put it this way: if ins you ain't interested, I got a buyer lined up.

    The slabs are more pancake that the front view implies and once I put the rubber feet on them, they will be more stable.
    Once the soil /gravel is added, it can be mounded up pretty steep between the ridges. This way you get a pretty tall bowl like effect.

    Monte carlo roots much better than Gloss, HC, ET etc, so it will hold the sediment in place better, same for Starougyne etc.
    No matter which type of plant is chosen, you will not be uprooting, you will be mowing with scissors.
    Note, the rock is darker than the dry dust looking rock here.

    I'm sort of hoping you do not like it so I can use it elsewhere:)
     
  12. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Tom,

    This is a dilemma... I DO like the rock but understand if promised to someone else. Or if they can offer more than I :)

    That said, if I release the hold, then either you need to get even BETTER rock for me OR you need to do a super DUPER scape for me using perhaps the black lava.

    Can you do another layout using the black lava rock?

    Is the 300 lbs that big pallet in pic 1 or just that used for the layout?

    The uprooting was just once so you can scape it. Maintenance going forward is mowing.....I wanted to plant the entire new substrate some weeks b4 you come out..

    Thanks!
     
    #12 Gerryd, May 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
  13. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    subscribed to this thread. Personally I'd stay away from the ADA hype and use the old school seiryu stones that Tom picked out, but it's not my tank. Seiryu is a classic.
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I bought the rock with you in mind, but I often buy or collect things that I feel are of high value for aquascaping etc.
    I'll know I'll use it somewhere.

    But put yet another way, if you decide against it, you are under no obligation to buy.


    Black lava will be next week.
    It's really wild looking, not that cheesy crappy red boring stuff, this looks like something that came out of Pele's butt.
    It can be hacked up and modified also, light weight, and I can get much larger pieces also.

    No, the rocks you see in the scape layout are about 350 lbs, the pallet in the 1 st pic is about 1 ton.
    A little Monte Carlo goes a long ways.
     
  15. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Tom,

    Well, I went back in your emails and see that 300+ lbs of the seiryu and shipping is well within my budget :) You will have to stay at a motel 6 instead of the local Hilton...but they are comfortable as well :)

    Just kidding. You still get the local Hilton. Unless you blow me away with something else like the Yuba stone, this will fit my vision very nicely.

    I like the fact you say the stone is darker but covered with the lighter dust coating. So will look better once cleansed.

    I finally took a CLOSER look at the pic of your gloves in front of the stones. Really gives context as some rocks were easily bigger than both gloves end to end. So, a rock that requires two hands is big IMO....

    I think this is going to look tremendous....

    Can't wait now to make it happen....I will miss my forest and current scape though...

    But, to have an intricate forest for 2 years, and now a rock scape, will really provide some well rounded experience....

    I can already picture my fish swimming in their newly decorated home....

    I have a spare case of ADA Amazonia new in the closet. I think we used 7-8 bags (2+ cases) last time, so would need 2 more cases to have enough. I am ok with ADA again, unless you have some overwhelming evidence of a better option...

    We could start sourcing this now so it will be here when you do :)

    You need to send me your schedule for preferred dates. I can then quickly match my schedule and we can pick a good mutual timeframe.

    Will be nice to see and work with you again. Take good care.

    Gerry
     
  16. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Took me some time to figure out it's for Gerry's tank...:eek: it will be a nice topic to follow :)
     
  17. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Matt,

    You need to get a larger tank already :)

    I think it is safe to say that I am not one to fall for hype. Esp from ADA which is well known for it lol
     
  18. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    LoL! had a 55 Long for a while, and it became too much work for me. I'm lazy now. Plus I almost killed out hardwood floor! One of my Eheim ProIIs decided to spring a leak. Luckily I was home. Now every filter goes in a Rubbermaid container. With the ADA stand for the 60P (the metal one), I can dry off the floor underneath if I spill anything. Although I'd love a 200+ gallon tank (And I'd love Tom to scape it), it's most likely not going to happen for a while--at least until I finish school.

    Really looking forward to watching you guys progress with this project.


    -Matt



    I'm set with the 60P for now. It doesn't require much to maintain.

     
  19. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Yeah, Tom and I were working in stealth mode....glad you will be along for the ride...
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The stone on the Left hand side, the long square like one, that's likely about 125 lbs or so.
    Most are more than the 45 lb weights at the gym. It's a work out moving them.

    Yes, those gloves are a good way to see just how massive these are, these are larger than what Amano's used from everything I've seen or anyone else.
    Seeing them with a foreground fine leaf plant and cardinals will help even more.

    As far as sediment, we will use more this time for slopes and fill.

    The Lava rock is different than the ADA stuff, this has frankly more character, the twisted look etc.
    I have not yet worked with it, but I was eye balling it closely.

    If you look at the Manzigumi wood scape in my 70 Gal, that will give an idea of the potential.
    And then some.
     
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