A new Micro-Nutrients

[mbappaditya]

Hi,

This is my 1st post in the forum –

I am from India and find it bit difficult to get Plantex CSM mix – However, I managed to get a Chelated Micro-Nutrients mix with the following composition :

B-1.5%
Cu-EDTA Chelated -0.5%
Fe-EDTA Chelated- 3.4%
Fe-DTPA Chelated-2.4%
Mg-EDTA Chelated-2.0%
Mo-0.2%
Zn- EDTA Chelated-4.0%
MgO-2%

Could you please help me to understand – whether I can start using this mix for my regular EI?- If yes what will be the quantity ? I have a 250 L planted aquarium, with Co2

 

[Biollante]

Rather Scary...

Hi,

Welcome! Though a welcome from me might be more harm than good here.

I do not think that your Chelated Micro-Nutrients mix will make good micronutrients for a planted tank.

The iron is a bit low that can be overcome, it is the very high metals that concerns me, especially the zinc, though chelated I would be afraid of it; free zinc is very toxic to aquatic plants and critters.

I assume you meant Mn (Manganese) rather than “Mg-EDTA Chelated-2.0%”, as Manganese, that is about right.

Biollante

 

[mbappaditya]

oppss!!

Thank You Biollant

You are right - It is not Mg it is Mn

The corrected composition :


B-1.5%
Cu-EDTA Chelated -0.5%
Fe-EDTA Chelated- 3.4%
Fe-DTPA Chelated-2.4%
Mn-EDTA Chelated-2.0%
Mo-0.2%
Zn- EDTA Chelated-4.0%
MgO-2%

Though this is not changing % of Zn- what should be the % of Zn ~1%

 

[Tom Barr]

Zn, Mn and copper are rather high.

Otherwise it's okay.

 

[Biollante]

For What It Is Worth, Or Not As The Case May Be

Hi,

I yield to Tom Barr’s greater knowledge,:witless: always figured there was plenty from various sources and I really am kind of scared of most of the “heavy” metals, copper being my real nightmare.

---

For what it is worth, what I was going to post.

CSM+B claims 7% Iron (chelated) and 0.4% Zinc (chelated) or 17.5:1, I like that sort of ratio. I am sure it can be pushed but Zinc is dangerous.

Using the 17.5:1, iron to zinc rule your micronutrient would need to be 0.33% zinc.

The standard CSM+B dose is 0.1-ppm iron, using iron as the proxy, per week that would put the Zinc at 0.0057-ppm (5.7-ppb), per week. Dosing 3-times-a-week as I do means the highest acute amount is around 0.002-ppm (2-ppb).

I tend to push the micronutrients in heavily planted tanks to 1-ppm iron (from CSM+B), which of course is .057-ppm (57-ppb). Dosing 3-times-a-week as I do means the highest acute amount is around 0.02-ppm (20-ppb) and of course I assume there is a certain amount consumed by plants and critters and given that as with Calcium and Magnesium, Zincs +2 oxidation state it, has a high affinity for our substrates.

I seem to recall that 30-ppb chronic exposure is the upper limit for softer water.

I will have to do some research, or maybe one of the smarter-than-the-rest-of-us-bunch can drop in.

I am not sure what the literature is but it seems to me the guidelines suggest that the harder the water, the more zinc is tolerated.

I do not believe zinc builds up or enters the food chain; I think the water-soluble form is the problem.

I will try to get back to you tomorrow. (Well, not now.)

Biollante

 

[mbappaditya]

Thank- You

I will definitely like to use that (simple reason is it is easily available)

Btw- I also have some EDTA Chelated Fe 13%; is there any means that I can add some of them in the mix to change the percentage

 

[Tug]

Molybdenum deficiencies are extremely unlikely.
Could add a few things to increase the levels of Fe and Mg, help drop the overall % of other stuff.

Bio's home brew.

 

[Biollante]

Yeah I Know I Said I Wouldn't... I Will Push My Luck Anyway...

Hi,

For what it may be worth in a quick search, I found this Ambient Water Quality Guidelines for Zinc, which seems to have the numbers I recall, based on the formulas:

• Freshwater: Acute
  • Maximum Zinc Concentration (µg/L) = 33 + 0.75 (Water Hardness in mg/L CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB] - 90)
• Freshwater: Chronic
  • Average Zinc Concentration (µg/L) = 7.5 + 0.75 (Water Hardness in mg/L CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB] - 90)

This is what I remembered that harder water mitigates the effects of zinc.

Based on a cursory read Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part C 133 (2002), page 272, it seems that increasing the Calcium and Magnesium lowers Zinc’s toxicity. It seems that Zinc and Calcium use the same ion channel.

Zinc and calcium appear to compete for the same ion channel, such that while elevated levels of zinc inhibit calcium uptake, the converse is also true. Hence, calcium can produce a strong protective effect against zinc toxicity. Limited data suggest that calcium may be more protective than magnesium against zinc toxicity, at least for invertebrates such as D. magna (Heijerick et al., in press). This difference may reflect the fact that calcium and zinc share a common uptake pathway. While increasing either calcium or magnesium in the water may provide a competitive benefit by reducing the degree of interaction of zinc at the gill, an increase in calcium may have the additional benefit of facilitating calcium uptake when this saturable process is operating at a less than maximum rate

.
Zinc still worries me, I know there is a tendency to say Rainbow trout and fathead minnows are not necessarily the same as our critters, that may well be true, but I have found that Daphnia magna are great bio-indicators.

A quick look at Lenntech’s Toxicity to aquatic life seems to indicate the toxicity of zinc and copper increases when combined.

Biollante

 

[mbappaditya]

Appreciate your help and explanation –
The water hardness of my tank is around 200 so as per µg/L guideline - acceptable total Zn is 115 (i.e. 0.115-ppm) please correct me if my understanding is not correct –
However, I will try to get some product with a lower amount of Zn- unless someone advice differently

Regards