75g "Dutch" Weed Farm

slipfinger

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As mentioned in my last post, AR mini has made a return to the weed farm. Posting a photo so I can document its demise.

Note: The AR is coming out of a 4 week old (new AS) tank that has had ZERO added nutrients.

For the record my current micro dosing, 3 x week:
.1ppm Fe Gluconate
.1ppm DTPA Fe
.06ppm Mn as Manganese Sulphate
.003ppm Cu as Copper Sulphate
.011ppm Zn as Zinc Sulphate
.002ppm Mo as Sodium Molybdate
.025ppm Bo as Borax

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slipfinger

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Update

One thing I have learned in this hobby is, consistency is very important! When you get off schedule, be it dosing, water changes or regular trimming, plants are quick to start complaining.

Leading up to this past week the tanks have played second fiddle to 'life'. Between working long hours and being away my regular dosing and husbandry routine has been no existent . This past week the tank has been back to its regular routine and I have quickly noticed the improvements. Not a single stem of Pantanal is complaining, Giant Ambulia is finally starting to grow now that its seeing regular dosing again.

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Couple of plants are still complaining. This may or may not be because of the lack of attention.

AR 'rosanervig'. This is a tough demanding plant. I've had it in the tank for 3/4 months now and it has never really done all that good. It grows and has nice colour but some plants have stunted and twisted leaves.

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Mermaid Weed (Proserpinaca Palustris), It grows nice and colours up nice, but there are always a couple stems out of the bunch that develop stunted and twisted tips.

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Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' has the odd twisted leaf. When it twist the leaves also turn a red colour.

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Couple of random FTS.

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slipfinger

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A week ago a decided to throw some AR 'mini' back into 75 to see how it would do. Low and behold it is growing damn near perfect. For now, if you look close enough there are signs of trouble ahead, leaves curling under and maybe one or two leaves with a little wave in them.

Planted on Oct 3rd.
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Today.
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I listed my current micro dosing a couple post above.

My macro dosing is as follow 3x week.

1/3tsp Kno3 5ppm
1/4tsp Kh2po4 3.5ppm
1/3tsp K2so4 3.3ppm. just because.
.25ppm Urea

Lately (about a month) I've been adding a 1/2tps .9ppm MgSO4.7H2O after any water change.
 
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burr740

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AR is looking pretty good so far.

That seems like an awful lot of P. Theoretically you could have over 20 ppm in the water column. Might be throwing your micros out of whack.

Year or two ago I was dosing 2-2.5 ppm 3x for a while, along with very low micros from csmb. Had a few chronic and severe issues like a Fe deficiency that wouldnt fix by simply adding more Fe. Finally dropped P way down to .5 and then .75 and a lot of those issues quickly got better. Since then Ive inched P back up, last few months dosing 1.75 3x

Anyway the point is having so much could be interfering with other micro nutrients, even though a high P level by itself isnt necessarily bad for plants.
 
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slipfinger

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Thanks for the feedback @burr740.

About three weeks ago my normal P dosing was 1/8tsp 1.72ppm. At the time I was getting a fair amount of GSA on my glass, I decided to try adding more P to see if it would help.

Out of shear laziness I just started adding the next size measure spoon on my ring of spoons, which happens to be 1/4tsp. This is how I scientifically got to adding 3.5ppm P 3 x week. On a positive note, I hardly had to scrape any GSA off the glass the last couple water change days.......

I'll drop it back down again this week and see how the plants and GSA respond over the next couple weeks.
 

burr740

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Well if its a recent thing then its not the cause of any issues you were having before. I thought maybe you'd been doing that the whole time...
 

slipfinger

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Well if its a recent thing then its not the cause of any issues you were having before. I thought maybe you'd been doing that the whole time...

AR 'rosanervig' has always been a pain in my ass.

Hygro (stunting and twisting of new leaves), I noticed the stunting of the new leaves in the photo about 4/5 days ago. Not saying I've not seen it in the past, but most of my issues with this plant seemed to be older growth.

Mermaid weed stunting is also something new.

These issues could also be the results of not being consistent with my routine a couple weeks ago.

Still interested to see what happens to GSA if I reduce P.......
 

Greggz

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Anyway the point is having so much could be interfering with other micro nutrients, even though a high P level by itself isnt necessarily bad for plants.
Burr that brings to mind a funny story I shared on TPT. I once received some mislabeled fertilizer. So it turns out I was dosing 1 tsp of P instead of N for about a month. I only realized it when I tested the water, and the P value was absolutely through the roof.

The thing was, the tank was still doing great? No algae bloom. No stunting. Good growth in general all around.

So unless it is somehow messing with the micros, in my experience extra P is most likely pretty harmless.
 

slipfinger

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Very quick update.

Finally got my hands on the PowerVeg 660. For those @burr740 that thought the 633 was red this bulb is really red. Things will probably look different when I actually get a chance to move bulbs around. I am not planning to run both red bulbs at once, but throw it in the fixture to see the difference.

Before with 2 flora bulbs.
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After with 660 and Flora.
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All six bulbs with just the 633.
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All six bulbs including the 633 and 660.
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slipfinger

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Thank you @fablau

I started a discussion on this little AR experiment starting here, including my current micro dosing.

I post an update here along with my current macro dosing.

I will update with a photo tomorrow. But I can say I am starting to see signs of twisting in a few of the leaves.

EDIT.

Forgot I took this yesterday. Not the best picture as I cropped it to only show the AR. If you look closely at the taller plant in the middle you can see the twisting and curling leave.

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fablau

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Thanks for the picture! Fantastic group. I am sorry you start seeing some twisting, what do you think that could be due to? And you are using ADA AS, right? If so, that should mitigate any possible "toxic" or "side" effects...
 

slipfinger

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@fablau

I was actually quite surprised at the growth after only 10 days.

I can't explain the why part. What I do know is that in my 40g grow out tanks with new AS and no dosing of any kind for almost 6 weeks, it grows straight as an arrow. Rumour has it @Pikez might start experimenting with AR in the near future, maybe he will shed some light on the issues.
 

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Amazing how different it looks under the new bulb.

I wouldnt start worrying yet. One out of twelve plants has a little curl...not much of a problem
 

slipfinger

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@burr740

I think I'm just preparing myself for the honeymoon to end!

Now, I did do a rookie mistake and forgot to turn my circulation pump on after my last waterchange. I didn't notice it for almost a week. With the reduced flow and circulation, I'm sure movement of Co2 was reduced. I did notice some hair algae on my Hygro again after just getting rid of it.

Ya the colours pop! The 'araguaia' looks amazing under the new bulb.
 

fablau

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@fablau

I was actually quite surprised at the growth after only 10 days.

I can't explain the why part. What I do know is that in my 40g grow out tanks with new AS and no dosing of any kind for almost 6 weeks, it grows straight as an arrow. Rumour has it @Pikez might start experimenting with AR in the near future, maybe he will shed some light on the issues.

Yes, we all are aware that AR prefers nutrients from roots than water column, so... that's an easy explanation.
 
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Pikez

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Wow! I'm really loving this.

This is all very Burr. You are out-Burr-ing, @burr740! Right down to the tank frame, lights, placement of Hygro araguaia, and pics from above.

Your eye for contrast, plant selection, number of plant groups for the tank size, are all impeccable.

Sure, you have the standard-issue tip stunting blah blah. Who doesn't!

PS: rumors be still rumors. I am nowhere near starting an AR Kill Tank. Easiest way to fix AR is to feed the plant exclusively with Aquasoil and/or root-only ferts that's mostly Ammoniacal nitrogen. Ironically, that my be the solution for Rotala and Ammannia as well.
 

Pikez

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Hygro 53B is a genetically engineered creation, so it has lost the typical Hygrophila hardiness. I had a couple of stems that had tip stunting when my Calcium and CO2 was low. Recovered fast when I fixed that.

Leaf shedding and stem melts are the other two issues you may have. Otherwise, it is a delightful plant.

My suggestion is to revisit CO2 and Calcium first. There may be some nutritional funkiness going on too - AR and Proserpinaca (PP) are classic indicators for nutrient funkiness. AR tip stunts while PP tip stunts and stem melts. But both are more forgiving than Ammannia and Rotala.
 

slipfinger

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Wow! I'm really loving this.

This is all very Burr. You are out-Burr-ing, @burr740! Right down to the tank frame, lights, placement of Hygro araguaia, and pics from above.

Thanks @Pikez means a lot coming from you.

Someone once told me, If you want to be successful at something seek out individuals that have had great success and do as they do. Ask questions, but also learn to shut-up, and listen. So yes, very @burr740 like and for good reason.

Your eye for contrast, plant selection, number of plant groups for the tank size, are all impeccable.

Again thank you. I still have many ideas and different plants I want to try in the tank. The right side needs some work, I've never really been happy with it. I think it's the R Mac, but I'm having a hard time removing it because I've had such a hell of a time growing it in this tank. Now that its grow half decent, I don't want to remove it. Its like a trophy on a shelf, they are usually ugly as sin and don't fit the decor but we leave them out to remind us and everyone else of or accomplishments.

Hygro 53B is a genetically engineered creation, so it has lost the typical Hygrophila hardiness. I had a couple of stems that had tip stunting when my Calcium and CO2 was low. Recovered fast when I fixed that.

Its still up in the air if its actually 53B. I have someone hooking me up with some actual Tropica 53B to compare. What ever the case it gives me issues.

Once the golf season ends and things slow down I am going to work on redesigning my PVC reactor, to see if I can get it more efficient.

I rarely dose Ca, I think I've thrown it in the tank twice in all the time it has been set up. Might be time to start adding some to the tank, can't hurt. Any suggestions on how much to add? What are the deciding factors on the how much to add?

Nutritional funkiness! I honestly have not given much thought to ratios. I try and mix a 2-1 ratio of Fe to Mn because it was suggested. Anything else I should start researching.
 
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