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75g "Dutch" Weed Farm

Discussion in 'Journals' started by slipfinger, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Two posts in one day. Crazy I know, but I figure this little tidbit of information was post worthy.

    So I'm sitting looking at my tank and happen to glance over at my micro solution and a light bulb goes off in my head or something like that. I only have four days left until this first two week trial is over but I have more than half a 500ml bottle of solution left. What the hell!

    Then it dawns on me, I based my calculation on dosing micros very day for the two week period! (500ml / 14 days)

    So in short, I've been dosing half as much as I should have been since I am dosing micros every other day. This means I am currently dosing .05ppm Fe and .025ppm Mn instead of my original plan of .1 Fe and .05 Mn.

    I'm going to stick it out for the last few days then up my rates to my planned dosage.

    Wondering if this is what the Bacopa was/is trying to tell me........
     
    #21 slipfinger, Jul 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  2. DutchMuch

    DutchMuch Junior Poster

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    Lookin' Good :D
     
  3. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Water change, maintenance day.

    Moved a few things around and tried to add a little more space between 'groupings'. Still not really focusing on scaping. I'm waiting until I get my 40B's set up so I can move the extra plants over to these tanks. I have major issues with throwing out plant material....

    Pulled and cleanup all the AR mini and AR variegated, removing most of the crappy deformed leaves, and stunted growth.

    Definitely seeing improvements but not sure if its due to the new micro dosing, or the unplanned mini detox that has been 'kinda' going on for almost 3 weeks now. The week leading up to my new micro routine I dosed little to no micros at all. Add this, plus my screw up of only adding .05ppm Fe DTPA and .025ppm Mn for the last two week instead of the planned .1ppm Fe and .5ppm Mn, the tank has been pretty lean on Fe and Mn.

    Starting tomorrow we go back to the original plan of dosing .1ppm Fe and .05ppm Mn for 2 weeks.

    Other Thoughts:

    Wallichii is really not doing any better. I tried to spread them out a little to get more flow around them, but not thinking that is going to do much as the plants are already blowing sideways. What I find strange is that a few stem are doing ok and ones right beside them are stunted. If it was a deficiency wouldn't all the tips be effected?? Perhaps my Co2 is an issue? Just before Co2 comes on I am sitting around ~7.4 it drops to 6.3 just as the lights come on. Then for the most part drops and stays around 6.2 for the rest of the photo period, but I've seen it drop as low as 6.1.

    Pantanal certainly is not shy about complaining. One stem tip has already stunted and its only been in the tank three full days. I know I was in for a battle by adding this plant to the tank but had the opportunity to get my hands on some and took it. There are still about 4 other side shoots that are still doing great. When would be the best time to remove side shoots and replant?

    I'm considering adding Ca and Mg to the tank after water changes, only to eliminate any chance of a deficiencies that might be present. My water report says I have 34.9ppm Ca and 9ppm Mg which seems to be enough, but would it really hurt to give it a try?

    Don't think I should be calling this Dutch at all, maybe Jungle style would better describe the look.

    FTS

    Cleaned up Mini and Variegated AR. My tissue culture of Hygrophila 'araguaia' is growing nicely.

    Pantanal, stunted tip but the other ones looking good so far......... Fingers Crossed!
     
    #23 slipfinger, Jul 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  4. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    One thing that I love and hate about this hobby is how quickly things can change and how you never stop learning.

    Limnophila sessiliflora

    Everyone has grown this plant at some point, it grows like a weed in my tank. I've grown it multiple times. I keep trying to rid the tank of it but every time I do a trade with someone they think they are doing me a favour and add a few clippings of this stuff. Up until this point I didn't think anything made this plant unhappy, it seems to grow in any conditions. But low and behold, I come home from work today to find a couple tops pouting and dropping. This top is probably 10" away from my light so for 4 hours a day it is getting blasted with six T5HO bulbs. I have no clue if its telling me its getting burned to death or something else is going on, melting maybe?

    Anyone experience this before or seen this plant act like this before?

    I'm going to leave it for tonight and see what it looks like tomorrow just before lights come on. If it has improved with the lights out I'm going to top it and replant back near the substrate, get it away from the high light.

    Semi top view

    Side view
     
  5. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Quick update.

    I cut the top 4" of the Limnophila sessiliflora today and replanted just to see what would happen..... Within 20 minutes it looked completely normal. Too much light? To much flow?


    Another plant giving fits is Bacopa. Never seen it stunt in my tank before. No clue what it's telling me, but we'll ride it out and see what comes of it.


    I'm not going to send invitations to the party just yet, but Pantanal looks to be un-stunting. Damn this plants mood changes by the minute.

     
  6. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Quick update.

    [​IMG]

    Removed a few things and did a little trimming. Tried my hand at some streets, still have random plants here and there.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    AR looking a lot better, even some of the Variegated is straightening out.

    [​IMG]

    My original one and a half stems of Pantanal has already turned into four stems. The picture does not do the colour justice. They seem a lot greener in the picture compared to what they look like in the tank.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hygrophila corymbosa showing some sign of deficiency, anyone have any ideas?

    Macros
    Kno3 = 1/2tsp 7.3ppm
    Kh2Po4 = 1/4tsp 3.4ppm
    K2So4 = 3/4tsp 7.5ppm

    Micros
    .1ppm DTPA Fe
    .05ppm Mn
    Rest for tap water
     
    #26 slipfinger, Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    DutchMuch likes this.
  7. DutchMuch

    DutchMuch Junior Poster

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    @slipfinger, you tank makes me say "I cant wait tell I get mine up" lol!
     
  8. LRJ

    LRJ Subscriber

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    @slipfinger what do you have in the back left corner?
     
  9. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Those white specs are a micro deficiency, 100%. Although Im not sure which one specifically.

    Unless you are positive your tap has adequate amounts of B, Zn, Mo and Cu, you are going to have issues by not dosing them.

    You could try using Flourish Trace according to the directions. It has all the non-Fe micro nutrients in non-chelated form (edta free). 500 ml would last you about 15 weeks if you just followed the directions. Of course you may need more than that, hard to say

    Or, if you want to try making your own I can send you plenty of the 4 other compounds you'd need besides Fe and Mn. Fair warning; you'll also need some decent milligram scales. :)

    I can also make you a batch of what Im using if you want to try that. Its the same stuff thats in Flourish liquids, just different amounts of everything. It'll be all in one bag, dry, you supply the water.

    If you're interested in either one just shoot me a PM
     
  10. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    It's either Pygmy Chain Sword or some sort of Sagittaria. I bought a few over a year ago and stuck them in my daughters Molly tank. Cleaned it out a month or so back and throw a couple plants in the big tank and this is what has resulted.

    I'm never 100% positive about anything in the hobby.......

    As for the micro levels I went by my local water report and also a recommendation by Pikez. Numbers 'looked descent' to me. I figured might as well give it a try and see what happens. I'm sure I'm bottoming out on some elements, specially if I only get in one water change that week.

    Last week I did two water changes and never noticed this. This week only one, which was last Saturday. Throwing swords blindfolded here.
    • Cu - 0.008 ppm
    • Mg - 8.99 ppm
    • Zn - 0.0028 ppm
    • Mo - 0.0013 ppm
    • B - 0.023 ppm
    I'll grab some Flourish Trace for the short term, but just pouring a premixed store bought liquid out of a bottle takes the mad scientist effect out of the hobby for me. I love sitting down with my bags of powder, my little scale and of course my googles and mixing up some crazy concoctions.

    I've been looking to purchase each element but always end up scratching my head on what I would do with a lb of each one. I have what seems to be a pretty accurate milligram scale I purchased off Amazon, should do the trick.

    Thank-you for the offer Burr, I will Pm you to work out the details.
     
    #30 slipfinger, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  11. DutchMuch

    DutchMuch Junior Poster

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    [​IMG]

    I laughed so hard reading that because it was the first thing I saw lol! :D:D:D
     
  12. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Pikez was right, all those levels should be plenty. Assuming a) the report is still an accurate account of what's in there today, seasons change, etc, and b) those elements exist in a state that is available to plants.

    Right about here is about where my understanding of chemistry ends, so Im not sure what the odds of the latter is. I do know there can be Fe present which shows up on a test but isnt available to plants.
     
  13. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    I went and grabbed some Flourish Trace today, to see if I can sort out this deficiency.

    Of course I couldn't help myself and picked up some normal Alternanthera reineckii to see if I can stunt it. Also grabbed some Cabomba 'purple', another weed I didn't need but I'm hoping to have one of the 40's set up this week and need fast growers to fill it up with.

    On another note, my needle valve on my reg (Fabco NV55) has been floating last couple of days. Yesterday, when I went to check on the tank I heard some major gurgling coming from my reactor. Looked at the Ph monitor and I was already down one full point and Co2 had only been on 20 minutes. This morning I go down and its been running about half hour and its dropped .1 point and I can actually count the bubbles going through the bubble counter.

    I am now on the hunt for a reasonable priced metering valve. Looking for recommendations, I've read the metering valve post, but what are you guys using???
     
  14. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    My favorite is Hoke Micro Mite and Swagelok SS series.
     
  15. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Thanks rajkm. I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a Hoke 1300 series. Been searching fleabay for Swagelok SS series but boy oh boy they get pricey.
     
  16. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    I'll be heading on vacation for 10 days starting on Friday. I will not have anyone looking after the tank, which means it will be completely on auto pilot.

    The plan for the rest of the week is to mow down everything in the tank and reduce bio-load as much as I can. I'll switch out my Co2 tank with a new full tank, I don't want to have to worry about running out. Co2 will not change, it will remain at its current levels. Timers will be set to reduce photo period and I'll set the light to only run two bulbs.

    Dosing will not be happening at all. My hope is by reducing plant mass, keeping the light intensity low and reducing the photo period, but keeping Co2 high the tank will survive the week with no care or nutrient dosing.

    I finally gave up on the Rotala wallichii, pulled it all out except for a few 2" stems that seemed to be growing, for now anyway.

    36143758885_9a0bbf0977_c.jpg

    Replaced the wallichii with Cabomba 'purple'. I have never seen a plant pearl like this thing.

    35278887894_3f47cbb124_c.jpg

    Posting a full tank shot for myself so I can compare this to when it gets its vacation trim. The limnophila sessiliflora will be removed. It grows too fast and leggy under the tanks current conditions, high everything. I'm going to leave a few stems in the tank so I can see how it responds to the lower light and no ferts. I'm sure it will grow how I want it to look, bushy and full.

    35303853584_2b31959378_c.jpg
     
  17. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    [​IMG]

    Due to my vacation and the limited time over the next couple of days I decided today was probably the best day to get in the tank and hack and trim the crap out of everything. The picture is a little cloudy as I took it right after the water change.

    I've been wanting to move a few plants around for a while now, figured what the hell! I moved the Hygrophila corymbosa from the left side to where the weedy limnophila sessiliflora was in the back right corner. I tossed the whole lot of limnophila sessiliflora in the trash. Note to local plant buddies. Please do not think you are doing me a solid by adding a few of these stems in with your trades, I DON'T want them!
    I collected the random stems of Pantanal I had around the tank and combined them into their own little group were the Hygrophila corymbosa was. I started out with two wimpy stems of Pantanal, I now have seven wimpy individual stems plus one of the original ratty bottoms that now has about six little side shoots growing off it.

    Its amazing how much plant material you can actually remove when you get in there and thin and trim everything. When all was said and done I ended up with an easy pound or more of trimmings and stems.

    Just for reference the tongs in the picture are 8" long and the container is about 6" deep.
    [​IMG]

    Over the next couple evenings I still need to clean my filter, replace my Co2 tank with my spare and do a final 50% water change. I'll probably change over the Co2 tank tonight once it shuts down so I have a few days to run it and work out any kinks before I leave.

    Over all I am happy with the way most things are growing.

    Rotala macrandra is still not growing all that well or at all. I topped any that seemed to look ok and tossed anything that was stunted. This little group of a dozen stems was only one really beat up stem a few months back.

    I have one crown of AR varigated that is growing really well, the others not so well. I'm starting to think I need to hack them all down and remove all the old leaves except for the newest growth.

    AR mini has responded well to the low micros. I'm still getting the odd twist in some of the new leaves, but for the most it is a 100% improvement.

    Limnophila aromatica grows like a weed. It has great colour, but seems to grow with the current and never really stands up straight.

    I love the look of what I think is Pygmy Chain Sword flowing across the top of the water on the left. I didn't really want to trim it but I also didn't want it to block any light from the Pantanal, so it got a haircut. May have to rethink the Pantanal's location.

    My tissue cultures of Pogostemon erectus, Hygrophila araguaia and Proserpinaca palustris that I added to the tank just over three weeks ago are all doing really well.

    Pogostemon helferi grows so well in my tank. I have never had any issues with it at all, I just leave it alone to do its thing. Last time I cleaned the group up I was able to sell about 50 crowns and still have a dozen left for myself to replant. Most of this group was suppose to be sold over the weekend, but both buyers stood me up.

    Just some random shot of the tank from left to right.

    Left Side
    [​IMG]

    Center
    [​IMG]

    Right Side
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. DutchMuch

    DutchMuch Junior Poster

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    Wish I had blyx japonica that looked like that lol
     
  19. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Grows like a weed. I get mounds like this every 4 weeks or so.....

    36168052575_a2131c5e6f_z.jpg

    Found this picture when I was looking for the mound of Blyxa photo. Here's the last batch of Pogostemon helferi I sold, over 60 individual crowns in this group.

    36127748206_67a0524165_z.jpg
     
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  20. DutchMuch

    DutchMuch Junior Poster

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    Dang! bet you made some good $$ off of those. Especially when they are super healthy like that.
     
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