This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. Dismiss Notice
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

3-4 bubs per sec Still Have 9+ PH ?????????

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by BIGFOOTRoger, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. BIGFOOTRoger

    BIGFOOTRoger Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    90 Gallon
    Heavily Planted
    4 X 54WATT CATALINA T5 HO
    Rena XP3 Canister
    NO Airstones
    CO2 Tank 3-4 Bubbles Per Second 24/7
    8 Large Clown Loaches
    30 Guppys
    20 Platys
    3 Geo. Brasiliensis
    2 Skunk Loaches
    Rainbow or 2
    5 Scissor Tail Rasboras
    3 corys
    8 other little guys
    Fluorite substrate
    No Algae

    Why is my PH so High ?
    Tetra Master Kit Bright Blue at least 9 PH I Figure

    Pumping into a power head reactor.........no balls in reactor tube

    Any clues !

    Thank You

    And Please

    Roger :cool:
     
    #1 BIGFOOTRoger, Dec 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2009
  2. BigFlusher

    BigFlusher Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    Biogenic decalcification?
     
  3. DaBub

    DaBub Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    More Carbon

    As my inarticulate friend, Big Flusher suggests it does appear to be biogenic decalcification where the pH jumps to 9.0 or even higher. You may notice carbonates precipitating out of solution. :)

    Those T-5 lights provide a lot of energy and the plants may simply be consuming all the available CO2. :eek:

    Due to the high light and number of plants, I would guess you are simply not meeting their carbon needs. :(

    I don’t know if Biollante is still Barr’ed or not, Biollante knows about this, I’ll try e-mailing.
     
  4. BIGFOOTRoger

    BIGFOOTRoger Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    I know of B D C...from reading Kasper Horst and Horst Kipper "The Optimum Aquarium"

    I have no signs other than the PH rise.

    None of that nasty build-up.

    Oh , AND the WAY TOO MANY PLANTS HA! HA! HA!

    So it's those plants sucking my CO2 Tank Dry

    So Now What............remove some plants? Or Increase the CO2.........OR reduce Photo Period ?

    Thanks for the reply !
     
    #4 BIGFOOTRoger, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  5. DaBub

    DaBub Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    off hand i would say reduce the number of bulbs. toal wattage.
     
  6. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
  7. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    The plants aren't sucking the CO2 dry; you'd have to be yielding something like 1-2lbs of wet growth per week, without even accounting for atmospheric CO2 at 2.5ppm. Ponder this for a moment:

    On average, people tend to go through 1lb of CO2/month on mid-sized aquariums. Plants are about 90% H2O, and we'll say 40% carbon. CO2 is 12/44 g/mol carbon.

    =1/4*100/90*100/40*12/44
    =0.25*10*2.5*0.2727
    =1.704375

    BPS is definitely not an accurate measure of how much CO2 is dwelling in the column. As LeftC is saying, try a drop checker out; it's helpful to know if you're even maintaining it in the column. Also, how are you diffusing the CO2 into your column? How much surface agitation do you have? An XP3 is also a very small filter for a densely planted tank.

    Another question would be test kit accuracy. I'm guessing that just by pouring the water into the test tube, you're probably gassing off a ton of CO2. Try borrowing a pH meter; most LFS's have one. Measure pH in the column directly.

    If we're going to consider biogenic decalcification, then the pH has to rise between water changes; not hold at 9pH. Test the water the day before and the day after a 50% water change. If there's no significant increase in pH, then there's no buildup of calcification from a steady metabolism. A list of stocked plants would also be helpful; if there are no plants present known to go through this process, then there's no reason to suspect it either.
     
  8. BigFlusher

    BigFlusher Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    been trying to answer for a couple o' days :(

    biogenic decalcification was admittedly a guess not being able to see the other factors.

    i still do not buy into 100% efficiency of co2 as Dan suggests also do not buy into 130% of plant h2o and co2, certainly at least a % or 2 of other stuff. on my planet we are generally limited to 100% of anything.

    if you are 'out gassing' a significant amount of co2 in transfer to test tube, i seriously doubt that the co2 was actually in solution as opposed to just bubbles in the water.

    i do agree bps is meaningless, it is the amount of co2 into solution in the water column then the circulation getting the co2 and nutrients to the plants.
     
  9. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    90% wet weight, 10% dry, of that 10%, 40% is carbon at most. The math spells it out for you.

    CO2 does not remain in solution easily; it gases off within 48 hours just at rest, and we push very far beyond 100% saturation. Agitation or aeration will gas it off even faster, in a matter of seconds if you pour the whole solution splashing into a test tube. This is basic knowledge to CO2 dinamics within a planted tank. It's the same reason sticking DIY CO2 into the intake of a HOB is a miserable idea.
     
    #9 Philosophos, Jan 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2010
  10. BigFlusher

    BigFlusher Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    no problem with the arithmetic, just the assumption behind it.

    still doubt 100% of co2 in solution.

    it was you who posited 90% h2o and 40% carbon. your revision is accepted.

    i have no argument with co2 gassing off in 48 hours or so my clearly stated objection was to losing statistically significant amounts in transfer to test tube. if the co2 is in solution that should not happen without vigorous shaking.

    i still think one way or another it is a lack of carbon.

    i also heartily agree with DaBub that reduction in light would be a good 1st step.

    nice try at changing the terms to 'win' your argument! my point was simply a possibility based on incomplete facts, if there is no calcium deposit then biogenic decalcification is unlikely.

    that does not make the silly bps or bubbles floating around the tank anymore effective or less wasteful in getting co2 in solution and into a plant useful form.

    other possibility exist, the pH reading may indeed be incorrect or inaccurate. i am not familiar with tetra pH kits but if it is the 'blue' as in Bromthymol Blue the range 6.0 (yellow) to 7.6 (blue) is about it.
     
  11. DaBub

    DaBub Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    Hi Roger,

    I found an old Tetratest pH kit it appears they do not use Bromthymol Blue.

    It appears that "bright blue" would be pH 7.5-8.0; pH 9.0 is dark blue going on purple. (Edit: The card goes from 5.0, yellow to 10.0 purple. At the bottom left: Mat.-Nr 506480-3S, Freshwater/Eau douce/SuBwasser)

    The kit I am looking at has reagent for 'freshwater' and another for 'saltwater.'

    Just looking for a double check as this is odd unless you are using limestone or something along the way.
     
    #11 DaBub, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2010
  12. BIGFOOTRoger

    BIGFOOTRoger Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    Thanks for Getting back with me ;)

    I just siphoned half my substrate.......which included a partial water change........will recheck......and let you know
    Thanks
     
  13. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    Below are API's pH color cards. The one on the right uses the Bromothymol Blue low range freshwater pH indicator solution.

    [​IMG]


    ~ 6.0 pH, ~ 6.8 pH, ~ 7.6 pH

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:24 AM
    pH

    Hi Roger, Left C,

    The Tetratest kits use a different reagent than API the so-called low range reagent is Bromothymol blue and the high range is Thymol blue, thymolsulphonephthalein, second transition. Thymol blue (first transition) actually will read very low pH.

    I have read that the Tetratest has quite a high margin of error.

    I agree with DaBub, without some explanation, or even with an explanation pH ranging up over 8.5 is a problem.

    Biollante
     
    #14 Biollante, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice